Hi,

I'm into Chinese antiques myself and though I do not buy and sell many ancestor paintings, I do know a couple of things that might be helpful.

First of all, the people depicted were usually dressed in black, blue or purple. These are official outer garments and do not say anything about their wealth. The ranking system is quite complex with each rank having an animal to denote it but some ranks have the same animal. Each rank also has a special hat finial that belongs to it. Each animal looks at the sun, the place where the sun is depends on where the official would sit as opposed to the emperor: military officials (wu) would sit in the West, and civil officials (Wen) would sit in the East.

Now the thing is, regulations on all these matters changed over time and so did the overall style of the ranking badges. This is of great importance in denoting if an ancestor portrait is potentially genuine. It is quite a field of study that the majority of fakers to not seem to be into. Therefore 99% of these portraits don't add up: Ming badges on Qing officials, etc.

A good reference book on ranking badges (for sale at the Foreign Language Book Store on Wangfujing) is Beverly Jackson & David Hugus' "Ladder to the clouds".

Still, perhaps there is one faker out there that has accurately copied a genuine ancestral portrait (rare but it happens) so it is no guarantee.

3000 RMB is an odd price, it is too little for a real one and way overpriced for a replica so it is almost surely a repro. You can expect to find antiques for bargain prices, but this usually occurs when someone only has a single piece of something and is not sure what it is. But when they have so many of them like you describe, the item is doubtful and likely to come from a big workshop.

-Peter

Indeed prices went up sky high for many antique items. Most dealers go crazy when they recognize something they have from TV or a catalog. Unfortunately they don't pick up the finer details like quality, condition, age, etc and only focus on a general likeness so prices are often even higher than in Europe. But, there are still affordable antiques everywhere, even at panjiayuan and liulichang.

The thing is, you need to know what to look for and that concerns a lot of study of actual period artwork, regulations, and studying actual antiques from private and museum collections. Be wary when visiting Chinese museums though, many of the descriptions are incorrect.

You also need to specialize in one thing, you can't know a bit of porcelain, a bit of art and a bit of craftsmanship because you won't get the best deals of either if you only know a little. You need to know what kind of techniques and materials were used on the old days, as well as what kind of design features were common. Also keep in mind that in the late 19th century, good repros were made of 18th century items because the craftsmanship was still largely there, unlike today's workshops.

Honestly, there is no short cut to connoisseurship. Just be dilligent.

-Peter

Hi Roger of ACF, a short reaction for you. Indeed, the sales girls of Lily's have no knowledge of ancester paintings. This does not automatically say they make things up though. I happen to know that the policy in this company is different, open and honest, and they don't just try to sell their products to any price, or say things the customer likes to hear. You know, they are trained by their boss, which is a very sincere person. But ok, back to the ancester painting. That piece was probably a restored one, and not long ago; original body and paintings but weared out and then (partly) done over. Mrs. Quan has a lot of those and can tell apart fakes and originals and all in between. She makes all prices there, as she also does all buying. Nothing wrong with the pieces she has, at least you get told by her what is real or not. And so, her prices are in fact reasonable.
You however rip of your local suppliers, and sell for pretty high prices. Nevertheless you're almost broke. You should balance your skills and knowledge, to gain trust again at customers. Try, it will do you good, as well as the furniture business in BJ.
Your critical friend

There is no easy answer to what can be sold and what cannot. I basically boils down to a somewhat complex formula as well as how tightly they are enforcing it at the time. Its not exactly the age but rather the "class" of item. There is a guide to exporting antiques from China located here which might explain it a bit better. They can really be tight on some items at times and completely ignore others so some of it is about trends. Stone and nice carvings can be difficult.

Yea, there are all types of different faking methods. I have seen patina's painted on bronzes, urine sprayed on new ceramics, and some stuff simply just left in the rain for a while. I know for ancestor portraits they often soak them in tea to produce that "yellowed paper" look. And painting over an ancestor painting even if its damaged would probably completely wipe out any value it might have had. Anyone who buys a piece like that should be told upfront.