What if even your ignorant assumption that global warming isn't real were true, would it still be a bad thing for this world if we cut back on carbon emissions, cut back on the use of oil based plastics, were much more frugal with our use of irreplaceable resources? That would be a bad thing?

Let me guess, you are American, you feel the world is your waste basket, you don't like paying taxes so that less fortunate people than you get improved living standards because you feel that they are only poor because they don't work as hard as you do, you voted for GWB, and you are basically (no, entirely) a selfish prlck? Am I close?

Let me guess, you're a hippie!

And what is your kitchen trash can lined with right now? Bio-degradable cow skins or something? If anything, you hippies should learn to recycle and put "more efficient use of resources" on your top priority list.
Don't think aggressive, think logical.

Actually, it is a good way to solve much.

From the link above:

= Clear plastic food wrap contains up to 30% DEHP [di(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate]. This substance is also in intravenous blood bags.

= In the middle of the Pacific Ocean, it was found that 1,000,000 times more toxins are concentrated on the plastic debris and plastic particles than in ambient sea water;

= Six times as much plastic per weight than zooplankton is in any given amount of sea water taken from the middle of the Pacific Ocean;

= Triclosan, in plastics as well as antibacterial soaps, deodorants, toothpastes, cosmetics, and fabrics, is shown to cause health and environmental effects and compound antibiotic resistance. Researchers found that when sunlight is shined on triclosan in water and on fabric, a portion of triclosan is transformed into dioxin.

= Migration from all seven categories of plastic designated with numerals on packaging, including the recyclable types 1 and 2, are (partial list): Acetaldehde, antioxidants, BHT, Chimassorb 81, Irganox (PS 800, 1076, 1010), lead, cadmium, mercury, phthatlates, and the acknowledged carcinogen diethyl hexyphosphate.

= Many more such additives are often present, creating in our bodies synergisms that can be 1,600 times as strong as an estrogen imitator/endocrine disruptor/single chemical may be.

= The main issue surrounding the use of polyvinylchloride (PVC) is the impact of toxic pollutants generated throughout its life cycle.

People aren't going to be able to prosper if they can't become the greatest destroyer of natural resources on the planet like America? Their enjoyment of life is going to be decreased if they can't use up plastic just like the Great Americans?

Do you know that they use 1 Billion plastic bags a day in China. Not one million, not ten million, not 100 million, one billion! Do you know that a great many of these end up in water, and oceans, and over time the plastic degenerates into a small fine plastic granule. The granules slowly become part of the aquatic food chain-which is ingested by small and medium sized marine life, along with their natural food. The plastic contains trace amounts of pcb's that then become part of our larger food supply. This is one not so small consequence of many of our overuse of oil based products-not to mention the immense amount of pollution it has has created in the form of litter everywhere and burning of plastics which releases toxins in the air.

Now, it is possible to make plastic bags out of natural resins and biodegradable material-but as long as there are plenty of people who think like you-why should we bother?

By the way, I am American, just not very proud of it.

Still there?
The real research and sources?
You must be kidding me, but I assume that's the real point of your real research and sources.

The decision made by China's State Council banning plastic shopping bags in all stores nationwide effective June1, 2008 represent that this will reportedly save 37 million barrels of crude oil that is required to manufacture plastic bags that Chinese consumers use every year.

The U.S. example:
San Francisco, a densely populated city of over 740,000 people that consumes up to 200 million plastic bags per year, also took the decision to ban plastic grocery bags. Supermarkets and pharmacies, beginning November 2007, are required to use recyclable or compostable sacks in lieu of plastic bags. The ban is expected to reduce oil consumption by almost 800,000 gallons a year, and reduce as well carbon dioxide emissions by 4.2 million kilograms annually.

Cutting back on the excessive use of plastic carry bags will lessen the demand for expensive oil as well as minimize the waste and pollution resulting from the production, consumption and disposal of plastic bags.

As I said before, move along lamer, you and your real "researches and sources" 8-)

Son of Blitzer.

You seem to have fallen into the oh so egregious trap of the forum world that is the selective response/ad hominem reply cycle. Someone posts a list of points, you respond to one, they respond to that, you criticize them for not relating it to your original point and chastize them a little for it. It's shake n' bake debate. Goes nowhere.

Case in hand:

Not only an unnecessary insult (could you imagine a parliamentary select committee dismissing a bunch of speakers as 'lightweights' or 'no-nothing nincompoops'?), but also a wild and inexplicable veering away from the title of the topic, which is:

Plastic bags have been demonized

I assume you think this is unfair, or something. Having read the article you linked to, it seems that the reports of nature's death have been greatly exaggerated. Fair cop, guv. But obviously, plastic bags do more harm than just choking animals, which is where other people are trying to shift the debate. Why don't you let them, instead of just focusing on the animal issue (which people such as Damian are discussing, bytheway) as (perhaps) a means of controlling a discussion for whatever kicks one might get from doing such a thing over the interwebs?

you dig?

Speaking of Damian, you're yet to reply to this natty little post:

Because to a doctor or a chemist, that's some

.

Generally, man made elements/chemicals/molecules/compounds are destabilizing because there's no natural degenerative process, which means buildup in systems and (usually, unfortunately), adverse effects.

So here's the rub, daddio. Do the benefits of using plastic bags outweigh ther cons?

To me, it seems the main benefit of bags is ease of use. Your bagging can be done at the supermarket without having to calculate how many hemp bags (or whatever the f*** hippies use) that you'll have to bring. Your point about developing countries needing bags as some kind of facilitator to economic/technological development seems a little spurious here. Unless there's some gimp in Burkina Faso who'd have greatly improved the efficiency of the hydrogen electrolysis process if only he'd not had to go home for another bag because they were selling two dozen eggs for the price of one and he'd forgotten he had to buy some more toilet paper like he does every week for God's Sake, it's hard to follow your logic to the macrocosmic scale you seem to be demanding. But by all means, it's an interesting proposition, so I'd like to hear more reasons to backup your point.

As you can probably tell, I'm in favour of the reduced use of plastic bags (but not the complete elimination thereof, mind), which you may class as fence-sitting (go ahead, I don't mind)

As Chris Rock says, anyone who make up their mind before they hear the issue is a f-ing idiot. Things are good and bad, helpful and harmful at the same time to the same people. Word to the wise; polarizing the issue as crazy environmentalists versus rapacious businessbastards is stupid, harmful, reactionary and supremely unhelpful. Doesn't matter which side of the fence you're on - if you're lumping people into catagories, you're missing out on a chance to glimpse the bigger picture and missing out on that wonderful wonderful stuff we like to call 'objectivity'.

Incidentally,this is an article by George Monbiot (who people tend to hate) regarding 'sense about science', from whose report your original article was derived. Interesting stuff.

Backpacks are fine for somethings but not a reasonable substitute.

I'm not putting my fruit, veg, eggs, bread, etc in a backpack to get bruised, broken, crushed.

When I go grocery shopping it's at least 6 plastic bags, some double bagged.

If there was an alternative to those hippy bags I'd take it. It's just too gay to carry around stupid fabric bags because if it doesn't have the store logo on it, then half the time the idiot security are trying to stop you from going in.

In Canada we have these heavy duty paper bags with handles, they work pretty good.

organization
i take my biggest packpack, 75 l, gives space

heaviest items under, carried with the ropes tight to your shoulders without crushing pression
much less swinging of your eggs than in a bag

in addition a linen bag for the delicate and light vegetables/items and u re done

u don t like hippie bags because they harm ur style?
i didn t know you were such a fashion freak

6 plastic bags, double ?
it s almost 1 nylon t-shirt u waste every time u do shopping
once, twice a week ?

as for reusing plastic bags as bin bags,
it s ok, but after having a stock of more or less one cupboard full of it,
it s a band aid on a bleeding skull

show me somebody who manages to efficiently use all the plastic bags given in china,
where food/non food, vegs/non vegs, every item pruchased must be put in a bag,
even the lipstick, with 7*10cm flimsy plastic bag where u can only put ur pinkie in the handle ? used tampons ? nail droppings ?

- end of production of extra flimsy plastic bags that need to be doubled or tripled or that u can t reuse because they broke already

- end of senseless bagging by shops because it s supposed to be part of the service

- preferential favours for ppl reusing bags or using long term/hippie/solid bags

could keep the proportion and the use of plastic bags to a maximum efficience/multi use level

And I didn't say anything about fashion.

I dislike them for other reasons. Like the one I mentioned, if I'm in Carrefour with a Carrefour hippy bag, I'm ok. If I'm in Carrefour with my own store bought hippy bag, then they might hassle me.

Plus they're associated with hippies, who I don't like because they're dirty and lazy.