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Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

guess what? Just reading up on exposure to BPA (Bisphenol-A, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A) found in plastics all around and in the news a few months ago after Canada decided to ban it.

Plastic containers marked with "7" are the ones that contain BPA.

http://www.thegreenguide.com/products/Kitchen/Plastic_Containers

Quote:
Before you know which type of plastic container to buy the next time you hit the store, you first need to know how to tell them apart. Plastics are typically classified by a number from #1 to #7, each number representing a different type of resin. That number is usually imprinted on the bottom of your container; flip it upside down, and you'll see a recycling triangle with the number in the middle.

Quote:
#7 PC
#7 Polycarbonate (PC) is found in baby bottles, 5-gallon water bottles, water-cooler bottles and the epoxy linings of tin food cans. PC is composed of a hormone-disrupting chemical called bisphenol A, which has been linked to a wide variety of problems such as cancer and obesity.

So the first thing I did was take a look at the 5-gallon water jug that is where 100% of my family's drinking water comes from.

You'll never guess in a million years what number is printed on it:

7.

These water containers are ubiquitous and as far as I know all exactly the same.

Soooooo .... anyone know of a water supplier that uses non-BPA water jugs? Or do we switch to tap water?

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Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

Last year...

BEIJING (AP) — China's food safety monitor promised Tuesday to investigate a report that more than half of the water coolers in Beijing use counterfeit branded water.
The water is either tap water or purified water from small suppliers put into the water jugs and sealed with bogus quality standard marks, the Beijing Times newspaper said in a lengthy report Monday.

The newspaper said Tuesday local officials shut down a Beijing bottled water distributing station and seized safety seals and labels bearing the names of local brands.

Beijing's tap water is generally not safe to drink because of the city's aging pipes; boiling water leaves a white powdery residue inside pots and kettles.

Signs in luxury hotels in the capital tell guests that water has been treated and is safe to drink, but most Chinese consider it unsafe and do not drink it themselves.

An official at the government agency that monitors food safety said the report was under investigation, but noted a May inspection of Beijing's drinking water products found more than 96 percent were safe.

"Problems found with some individual cases cannot be interpreted to mean that the entire water industry has problems," Wu Jianping of the General Administration of Quality Supervision, Inspection and Quarantine told a news conference.

The Beijing Times investigation relied heavily on an anonymous sales manager of an unnamed well-known bottled water brand, and reporters gave firsthand accounts of the forging process at various points in the supply chain.

The report said the practice is widespread because water from major suppliers can cost twice as much as water from other sources.

Suppliers keep track of how carefully their customers inspect the deliveries, and give jugs with fake or no seals to the inattentive, the report said.

More than 10 million Chinese are regular users of drinking water machines, the China Daily newspaper reported.

A spokesman for Wahaha water, one of the victims of the counterfeiters cited by the Beijing Times, refused to give his name or comment, saying he had not read the report, and added he was leaving the office for the day.

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

Where did you see that number, administrator? On the top of the bottle?

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

lucreziab wrote:
Where did you see that number, administrator? On the top of the bottle?

The bottom of the bottle, which is the top when the bottle is inverted to put it in the water machine, here's my series of photos I just took (the logo is quite difficult to see, the only reason it looks so bold in the photo is that i shined a light across it to accentuate the embossing of the imprint




Follow thebeijinger on weibo! http://weibo.com/tbjmagazine

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

Just curious. Is anyone here out of the country at this time? Can you peek at the other water bottles outside of china? What number is on the bottle?

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

You might want to find some better sites than wikipedia and "thegreenguide" before you get too worried Admin.

Try this one-it's got a report on the actual study.
http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Packaging/Research-suggests-cancer-li...

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

blucat wrote:
You might want to find some better sites than wikipedia and "thegreenguide" before you get too worried Admin.

Try this one-it's got a report on the actual study.
http://www.foodproductiondaily.com/Packaging/Research-suggests-cancer-link-to-plastic-packaging

I'm basing my concern on the fact that an entire nation (and a relatively advanced one at that -- Canada) has decided to ban it

The green guide is produced by National Geographic, which is another entity I have relatively high confidence in.

Follow thebeijinger on weibo! http://weibo.com/tbjmagazine

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

and of course the fact that 100% of the water i ingest -- be it drinking straight, cooking with, mixing coffee and baby food with -- all comes from these bottles. Doesn't that make you just a bit concerned?

Follow thebeijinger on weibo! http://weibo.com/tbjmagazine

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

Yes and no. Aren't you finding that now with access to every school and study ever done via the internet, there is almost quite literally nothing that hasn't at some stage been linked to health concerns?

And although I see your point about Canada banning it-look at the TB immunizations. Every country in the west does that except the States. Something as well studied as that, and still no conclusive evidence can be found.

I guess I would switch plastics though if it wasn't any hassle to do so.

You know, when they say "possible links" that sounds to me like it's marching down the road to where they will find that those that used this type plastic had a 2 in 1,000,000,000 chance of getting "x" disease, whilst those that didn't only had 1 in 1,000,000,000 chance.

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

waaah! i can't even find that "recycle" sign in my jug. does that mean i'm damned? we're using a very small water company represented by very smelly delivery guys...

"Will and conscience are subordinate to intellect."
-Apolinario Mabini

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

Sure it makes us all concerned. But we're in China, not in a western country. Who's to say that the water pipes which supply your apartment aren't made of PVC which according to the green guide are also hazardous?

I thank you for making us forum people aware, but if it's scaremongering you want (or perhaps information dissemination on a wider scale), then I urge you (as a high powered magazine magnate) to seek better representation and report it to the govt controlled China Daily Newspaper. If they decide to print the story then, and only then might the Chinese Govt take notice of certain percentages of chemicals which should or shouldn't be appearing in their consumables, and summarily take action.

I remember saying to a Chinese friend during the time of the melamine scandal not to be overly concerned. They were in a panic as they drunk milk-powder every day, including most of their school/uni life (some Amway milk product thing). I mean, it's a good thing that this is exposed so things can change, but widespread panic leads to unproductive personal countermeasures.

Think about it... The vegetables we eat are mostly all GMO, they might also contain high levels of pesticides/insecticides. Any meat product (such as those spam like sausages), or rather any protein rich food might contain high levels of hormones/antibiotics/melamine. It is impossible to distinguish if the bottled water you drink is not just plain tap water. Tap water might contain high amounts of bacteria and heavy metals/chemicals. Even the air we breathe here in China contains a vast array of 'vitamins and minerals' which we are supplementing our already unhealthy diets.

So, the only way to solve this problem on a personal front is to leave the country. But we aren't doing that in the short term, so the best thing we can do in the mean time is find some way to get govt representation for these problems, then leave it to them to solve.

Worry only creates wrinkles before they are due to arrive.

Action precedes deliberation. Should you wish to contact China Daily I can find a number for you to call.. just PM me.

Words have a spirit of their own, watch out they they don't come back to haunt you.

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

Plastics containg BPA will be banned everywhere soon. The problem is not a minute cancer risk, but that microscopic amounts of this chemical cause serious insulin resistance in experimental animals, which leads to type 2 diabetes. This chemical also mimics the female hormone oestrogen and has been linked to birth defects in boys and to feminisation and infertility in aquatic animals in watercourses where it accumulates from human waste water. It is only a matter of time before it is banned.

A recent article in New Scientist magazine described reports of lab workers discovering that enzyme assay experiments carried out in plastic test tubes produced results so skewed that they had to be abandoned.

I am convinced that plastic residues play a large part in the creation of the current type 2 diabetes epidemic, albeit in conjunction with other factors (diet, inactivity, stress etc). Make no mistake about it, this is not a fad, some countries are already banning this chemical and it is only a matter of time before it is banned everywhere. You can research it yourself on the Internet. The evidence is clear and abundant.

Look after yourself, get ahead of the game!

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

hmmn... thanks tufsoft... so is there an affordable solution for people renting apartments in China? After having a spate of health problems I had already switched to those 1.5L bottles of water about 6 months ago. But the weight of landfill is always on my mind, and I heard that to install a water filtration in apartments are really really expensive.

Words have a spirit of their own, watch out they they don't come back to haunt you.

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

No, it's not that expensive. The hassle is that you have to keep replacing the filters.

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

my bottle of water says '8' on it. is that bad? also says made by nestle, and 'pc'. so i have no idea what that means.

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

chaoyang wrote:
hmmn... thanks tufsoft... so is there an affordable solution for people renting apartments in China? After having a spate of health problems I had already switched to those 1.5L bottles of water about 6 months ago. But the weight of landfill is always on my mind, and I heard that to install a water filtration in apartments are really really expensive.

I've been buying 1.5L bottled water by the case since I moved into my new apartment. I find that this brand tastes better than the big water dispenser jugs. Yeah, it's a bit more expensive and also not as enviro-friendly, but there's also less chance of getting "fake" water. And the convenience store in my compound happily delivers it to my apartment so it's fairly convenient. The biggest hassle is selling the empty bottles.

After reading this thread I just checked the bottles - they're labelled as 1 - PET.

As for the water filtration system, the cost varies. Anywhere from 2000 to 6000 and up. I personally wouldn't trust the cheap ones - you never know what they could be adding TO the water, and some of them taste pretty bad. The better ones I've tried taste as good as my bottled water.

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

chaoyang wrote:
Sure it makes us all concerned. But we're in China, not in a western country. Who's to say that the water pipes which supply your apartment aren't made of PVC which according to the green guide are also hazardous?

I had the same concern as you, but I found out that the water pipes used within most newer apartment buildings here is not PVC. I forget what it's called but it's a white plastic that when heated becomes wax-like, which makes it easy to join sections together. I don't know about the health risks, but I doubt it'd be much worse than back home where we use copper pipes held together with lead solder.

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

Nidaye wrote:
chaoyang wrote:
Sure it makes us all concerned. But we're in China, not in a western country. Who's to say that the water pipes which supply your apartment aren't made of PVC which according to the green guide are also hazardous?

I had the same concern as you, but I found out that the water pipes used within most newer apartment buildings here is not PVC. I forget what it's called but it's a white plastic that when heated becomes wax-like, which makes it easy to join sections together. I don't know about the health risks, but I doubt it'd be much worse than back home where we use copper pipes held together with lead solder.

Of course, that's not to say that the pipes going to the apartment aren't made of PVC (what do they use back home?).

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

Nidaye wrote:
The biggest hassle is selling the empty bottles.

whoa... you can sell the empty bottles? To who? And how? Did u strike up a cooperative agreement with the convenience store?

And.. whilst this is a moot point because I'm sure they're all about the same, but which bottled water do you buy?

Words have a spirit of their own, watch out they they don't come back to haunt you.

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

Our water comes in the big jugs from Nestle and has the triangle with PC in the middle. Right next to it it's stamped "food grade." Does that make a difference?

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

BPA won't kill you! There are chemicals everyone ingest from PLASTIC materials, DUPONT teflon coated cooking items, and lead GLASS.

All these leak into the foods and liquids you ingest. BPA as LEAD, and Teflon are really only dangerous when ingested by baby's- its said to cause a "dumb-dumb" kid (who takes the short yellow busses) or learning disabled child.

No plastics are truly 100% safe for 1 reason- they are made from Gasoline. They more they are used, they more they wear out.

Send the class action suit to Saudi Arabia and OPEC for your dumb kid. If sucking on plastic bottles don't dim them, the emissions from making plastic compounds will. People who work in factories making plastics and teflon have a 2000% increase in having a slow runts.

petersblog2 wrote:

Unlike you, if I tilt my head to the right, I get a warm feeling seeing my beautiful gf asleep on our bed.

stcroix2bj wrote:

you post on this forum while in bed with your girl?

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

blucat wrote:
Yes and no. Aren't you finding that now with access to every school and study ever done via the internet, there is almost quite literally nothing that hasn't at some stage been linked to health concerns?

And although I see your point about Canada banning it-look at the TB immunizations. Every country in the west does that except the States. Something as well studied as that, and still no conclusive evidence can be found.

I guess I would switch plastics though if it wasn't any hassle to do so.

You know, when they say "possible links" that sounds to me like it's marching down the road to where they will find that those that used this type plastic had a 2 in 1,000,000,000 chance of getting "x" disease, whilst those that didn't only had 1 in 1,000,000,000 chance.

Hmmmmm

2010 is the year of BlackMan

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

joangracea wrote:
waaah! i can't even find that "recycle" sign in my jug. does that mean i'm damned? we're using a very small water company represented by very smelly delivery guys...

Yep, you're damned man! If you're gonna die slowly you might as well have some very hot girls deliver....

2010 is the year of BlackMan

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

Nestle has fairly recently changed its water-bottle-stickers (the ones that cover the top of the plastic cap) so that they no longer stick to anything after they have been taken off. This does not mean that someone cannot find new adhesive of course, but it is slightly better than the previous ones. They also are supposed to print a number on each label that you can go online and check to find out when the bottle was filled at the factory.

However, 11 large bottles are 170RMB from our local shop I think, so they are more expensive than others.

Basically, everything is in plastic these days so if we are going to die, then it is not just from the water.

Eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we......

To quote H.L. Mencken...
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

New Year - New Hat.

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

Wow, thanks admin for creating the topic and thanks to everyone else to contributing to it! I've learned a lot....

2010 is the year of BlackMan

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

ocpaul20 wrote:
Nestle has fairly recently changed its water-bottle-stickers (the ones that cover the top of the plastic cap) so that they no longer stick to anything after they have been taken off. This does not mean that someone cannot find new adhesive of course, but it is slightly better than the previous ones. They also are supposed to print a number on each label that you can go online and check to find out when the bottle was filled at the factory.

However, 11 large bottles are 170RMB from our local shop I think, so they are more expensive than others.

Basically, everything is in plastic these days so if we are going to die, then it is not just from the water.

Eat, drink, and be merry for tomorrow we......

Wise words indeed. You get to a certain point in life and realize that there's really not much you can do... you can at least work on and protect yourself, family and friends...and because we're all connected, that's good enough!

2010 is the year of BlackMan

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

Yep, warnings about contaminated bottled water do give me cause to think about what's healthy and what's not. But, I also get a funny feeling that all the Cokes, Pepsis, and assorted liquors will have polluted my body and done more damage to my liver quicker than the plastic bottle problem. Does that stop me? Not on your life! Party

Stay Hungry!

Pain is a requirement, not a curse

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

chaoyang wrote:
Nidaye wrote:
The biggest hassle is selling the empty bottles.

whoa... you can sell the empty bottles? To who? And how? Did u strike up a cooperative agreement with the convenience store?

Your compound probably has a garbage/recycling person who will buy your empty bottles, as well as cardboard and unwanted books to. The current rate for the 1.5L bottles is 0.10Y each (the small 600mL bottles are half that). 6 months ago you could get 0.20-0.25Y each, but for some reason the price has gone down.

chaoyang wrote:
And.. whilst this is a moot point because I'm sure they're all about the same, but which bottled water do you buy?

Actually, my preferred brand is Nongfu Spring (red label). I know you can get it in the water dispenser jugs, but not many places carry it and it might also not taste the same.

Some of the other brands (such as Robust) taste no better to me than tap water.

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

my mother-in-law uses the filters that you use with tap water so she just fills up the large bucket-thing on top of the water machine with tap water. It goes through an activated charcoal(?) dome-type filter set into the bottom of the bucket. All this goes where the large 19litre bottles fit on top of the water hot/cold machine. Hasn't killed us yet, but dont know what it has done to our livers.

To quote H.L. Mencken...
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

New Year - New Hat.

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

Yeah, I have a "PC" on one of my bottles and a "06" (with an up arrow between the 0 and 6). Not sure what any of that means but it does mean that there are a lot of different bottles around.

Re: Forget the milk, the bottled water's going to kill you

1 ♳ PETE or PET Polyethylene terephthalate Polyester fibres, thermoformed sheet, strapping, and soft drink bottles.
2 ♴ HDPE High density polyethylene Bottles, grocery bags, recycling bins, agricultural pipe, base cups, car stops, playground equipment, and plastic lumber.
3 ♵ PVC or V Polyvinyl chloride Pipe, fencing, and non-food bottles.
4 ♶ LDPE Low density polyethylene Plastic bags, 6 pack rings, various containers, dispensing bottles, wash bottles, tubing, and various molded laboratory equipment.
5 ♷ PP Polypropylene Auto parts, industrial fibers, food containers, and dishware.
6 ♸ PS Polystyrene Desk accessories, cafeteria trays, toys, video cassettes and cases, and insulation board and other expanded polystyrene products (e.g., Styrofoam).
7 ♹ OTHER Other plastics, including acrylic, acrylonitrile butadiene styrene, fiberglass, nylon, polycarbonate, and polylactic acid.

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