Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Foreigners will love these. Basically it's the Honda Joker (Japan) or Honda Shadow (Europe), and they are modified to become electric. These are electric scooters and they are awesome. The base 500W48V20A version runs around 45km/h for up to 60km in summer/40km in winter. Up the battery to Li-ion 40A and you get 125km range.
You can incrementally add the Wattage up to 3000W, at which point the speed is 80km/h (ridiculous), and the range of the 20A battery is shrunk to 30km (summer), and the 40A becomes desired at 60km range.
Question is where to get one in BJ?
Chaoyang, on Nanmofanglu 南磨房路(平乐园)between East 4th Ring and Xidawanglu, on the north-side of the street, look for a red-sign called 车之熠4S. It's about 500 meters from Xidawanglu, I guess. Riding in from 4th Ring doesn't seem far either.
They sell these babies in different colors and setups. You get front disc brakes, choose from rear drum/disc, they will do the upgrades for power if you want it. Cost prior to battery is around 3000RMB, and with 20A battery plus all-disc brakes, knee pads, rear-wheel disc lock, the cost is quoted at 4000RMB, talk a little while, it's 3900, bring a Chinese friend that can bring it down, and you loose a couple more hundred, and then you spend some time and let them modify your bike and check-up before you leave the shop, you've made some new friends and you have a VIP card for 10% off all future purchases, such as upgrades you may want.
These guys are very professional. Highly recommended on Chinese forums. Will work out all the details, checked the brakes/brake fluid, mine had air in the hose, they drained, pumped, and filled it back up. Also, they modded the bike from plugging the entire bike into the wall to being able to remove the battery from inside the seat and carrying them upstairs to my apartment to charge. When I had a flat-tire issue, brought it back, they fixed it, no questions asked, no charge. They actually took a new wheel off another bike there and replaced so they can diagnose later without delaying me. Oh plus, for a small fee (or negotiated into final price via Chinese friend), they will get the license plate for you, so you can avoid the po-po.
~Aggie Rob




aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
This is what these look like.


~Aggie Rob
aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
A useful chart to consider battery and power upgrades.
Power | Range (48V20A Lead)/ | Top-speed
| (48V40A Li-ion)|
500W | 60 km / 125 km | 45km/h
800W | 60 km / 125 km | 48km/h
1000W | 55 km / 115 km | 52km/h
1200W | 50 km / 105 km | 55km/h
1500W | 50 km / 100 km | 58km/h
2000W | 40 km / 85 km | 65km/h
2500W | 35 km / 70 km | 75km/h
3000W | 30 km / 60 km | 80km/h
~Aggie Rob
chaofan
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Why do you in one sentence ask us where we can find one of these babies and then in the next tell us where we can find one? ? ? sneaky little bastard you are, nice try, can't blame you for trying, 我是美国人,很聪明!哈哈
aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Sneaky? What am I supposedly trying to do? You obviously aren't a writer, it's a writing style to entice a reader into the subject matter. That's all. It was the question I had for a while until I figured it out, and wanted to share the answer to finding these great rides with the English speaking population in Beijing, since I had to resort to the Chinese-only information and still had trouble figuring it out until I got there.
~Aggie Rob
badr
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
good stuff aggierob, thanks for the info
which battery did you end up getting?
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droctagon
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
These electric scooters look like a pretty cool alternative to all the hassle of legally riding a gas bike. Just wondering if you could give an update since you've had the bike for a while now... do you still like it a lot? Have you had any issues with it at all? Are there any drawbacks to owning one? Also just wondering about the power of this electric scooter, as i've never driven one... how powerful is it? How's the acceleration? In the unlikely scenario that i find myself with two people on the bike, faced with climbing a steep hill... is it going to make it? (i know, unlikely scenario, but i would still like to know!) Does the charge last as long as is advertised?
Cheers!
MrTang
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Any one know about the petrol 125 version of this, who sells them and how much?
On another note coopers keep jumping on me at checkpoints..
Might have to get somthing faster....
Im a f-ing Idiot.
aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Petrol version: I've seen this available near Tsinghua University near Wudaokou. They were willing to sell for the same price as the electric version. He was trying to convince me that the cops would ignore me because I'm a foreigner, however, while you may get away with driving without a license, the plate that you need on the back will cost you a little for the Jing-B, letting you drive on and outside of the 4th Ring only. If you try to get a Jing-A so you can drive inside of the 4th Ring and into the city, it will cost you over 10,000 RMB, yes, that's the correct figure I was told.
I ride mine almost everyday to work, I don't do so when it snows and the roads are slick for safety reasons, I don't ride when my schedule for the day has me doing something else that may lead me to not ending the day at the office to pick up my bike. I also like to take the bike out after work and get around town a bit.
Being winter, it has had a more limited range, which has shown improvement already with warmer weather, however, I still feel the desire to just get the upgraded battery and go much farther with less worries, since the Li-ion battery allows driving around without affecting top speed. I also want to increase the speed on mine because I'm a guy, and I want to go faster. Admittedly, you are already going faster than almost everyone else on two wheels in Beijing even at 40~45km/h.
I have carried girls on the back and it doesn't affect top speed much, just the acceleration. With another guy on the back, can be much slower acceleration, but still acceptable since you expect it. Depending on the hills you are thinking about when it comes to slopes, you're unlikely to get much in Beijing, if you park in a garage, which can happen, then those slopes are too much to carry me and the bike up, but I'm a heavy dude. Just push it up and hop on.
~Aggie Rob
Niu Bi
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Awesome info - thanks.
So here's what I'd want - a bike with the 500 8V40A Li-ion, modified to be able to take the battery out of the bike, stock brakes and everything else.
What would I be looking at for price? And what colors do they have (I'd want black or dark/metallic blue).
aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
500W Power supply
I hope you mean 48V40A Battery, that's fine.
Battery comes out, Dual-disc brakes, etc.
Colors can be ordered in advance, I've seen white, black, silver, maroon, copper (orange), dark blue, dark green, blue camo, green camo, yellow, etc.
The initial bike cost with dual-disc brakes I've mentioned in the original article, and is dependent, as always, on your bargaining skills. Also, if you choose for some reason to have only one or zero disc-brakes and go for padded brakes, it'd be cheaper.
They've told me the battery upgrade cost around 3800 to 4000 as well. It's a hefty price tag considering the bike cost, but then again, you will get what you paid for, especially since electricity (to charge up) is so cheap in China compared to the higher fuel prices.
~Aggie Rob
Niu Bi
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
So the Lithium battery would be another 4000 kuai or so on top of the 4000 for the bike?
f*** that
droctagon
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
How was the mod job they did on it so that you could take the battery out? Does it look professional? I remember some time ago this guy showed me his bike that had been modded in the same way, and it looked like some guy did it with a beat up hacksaw. And is it really that much more for the Lithium battery??
aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
They sawed out the bucket under the seat, but it's a fare job, done with a electric rotary saw, if you are fortunate enough to live where you can drive your bike up to a plug-in, you can have the battery installed into the bike and plug-in without all this "ugliness".
The Lithium battery is a premium, and I think you should try the lead battery out first, you may find that sufficient for your needs. I think the payoff of the Li-ion will be good for me for two reasons:
1: I could use the extra range as I would travel from E. 4th Ring to Wudaokou at full throttle, which brings be to my next poing;
2: I plan to upgrade my power supply to get to a higher top speed, I'm debating 1500W vs 2000W.
~Aggie Rob
droctagon
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Cool, thanks for all the info. Very helpful. I can see myself buying one in the near future! One more question... does driving around at top speed significantly decrease the range? For example, if the battery is said to have a 60km range, is that only if you drive at a certain speed? If i drive everywhere at 45km/h, will that mean i can only drive 30km or something?
I'm also checking these out on Taobao... lots of them there!
aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Taobao is a good source to find info. I used it to find my store and went and negotiated in person, and that's when the real price comes to light. Prices on the internet can be artificially low because it's the price pre-battery and bare-bones with lesser brakes, etc.
If you drive at top speed with the lead battery, it will indeed decrease the performance of range, and as you die out, the top speed you can reach will gradually drop off. Lead batteries are also subject to temperature affecting range.
The flip side if you get a Li-ion battery is that the top speed is always there until the battery just runs out, no gradual drop-off, so watch the battery meter. Li-ion range is also unaffected by temperature.
~Aggie Rob
droctagon
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Cool... hopefully i can eventually scrounge together enough money for the Li-ion battery... it really sounds like the way to go.
droctagon
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
hey man, just wondering if you ever got the battery/motor upgrade? if so how's the performance? would love to hear your thoughts about it.
i did purchase one of these bikes a few weeks ago and am finally having some fun with it now that the nice weather is here, although i can already see a need for the battery/motor upgrade. cruising along at 45-50 feels pretty slow at times, and i would love some extra pickup.
aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
sorry to say, I haven't done the upgrade yet, but the desire is great. My issue is timing, as I'm often out of town and I haven't seen the time to pull the trigger.
I'm glad you're enjoying the bike, I tried a 60V30A 800W bike at the shop, but more the "modern" style, I can't stand those lack of handle bars. I much prefer these Turtle Kings. And I'm glad you agree you want to do the upgrade too, even if it is more expensive.
A few things I've learned though.
The good first: The chart above is the sell side chart, realistically, 1000W/1500W 60V40A will get you going 65-80 km/h tops, with the range up at 100+km and increase in the "pick-up" in acceleration. Better than what is shown above.
The bad: Turns out there is a term for those speedometers: "欢乐表", ie. "Joy-meter". They are universally designed to show speeds around 7-8 km/h faster than actual. Big bummer. Here's the flip side. These bikes are clones, so you can go to taobao and buy the dashboard from the gas-powered cousins and have actual speed shown, up to 160km/h or something. So for me, this is part of the equation I'm considering, since I want to know exactly how fast I'm going, especially if it's going 65-80km/h.
~Aggie Rob
droctagon
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Thanks for the new info. I've always been suspicious of the speed displayed by my speedometer, now i know why! I've actually been thinking about getting a new gauge display anyway because i have these ugly yellow-faced ones on the bike right now and they don't match well with the rest of the bike (black), so i looked on Taobao for black-faced gauges. i found some nice gauges that go up to 80 km/h or something, so they are obviously designed for electrics too, and are not from the gas scooters. Do you think these gauges would also be of the "joy-meter" type? The problem with the gas-scooter gauges is that they wouldn't give you the battery life gauge (although i haven't found that to be very useful anyway!).
You also mentioned a 60V40a battery... is that something new? Most of the info i've seen has been for either 48V20a or 48V40a.
aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
What I've been told is that all the electric meters are in fact joy-meters, I never liked the yellow backed meters, but mine came in black, much more pleasant to the eyes. But is probably exactly what you're seeing on Taobao.
Might I recommend looking for something like the following, since this is the only good example I've found on taobao thus far: http://shop35653832.taobao.com, more specifically: http://item.taobao.com/auction/item_detail-0db2-1f2f96f5c971a4a5ca0b3ea1...
This is the meter I'm looking at. As you can see, it's a gas-powered speedometer assembly for 55RMB. Battery meter I switched out already, each "pod" can be removed from the capsule and replaced, and mine is now a digital display showing some number indicating thing. 48V20A and the high is 55.* and they say at 46 start going home, and at 42, you're dead. But these numbers would change if/when I switch to 60V.
You can get these digital types fairly cheap too at the shops. I just go to my guys at the store I mentioned in the original post, now there is some competition a few shops down, but I've stuck to my guys, as they remember you and keep up the good work. (FYI: in that section of stores, mine is to the far left).
60V batteries are a 5th cell attached to your 48V-4 cell assembly. But in the Li-ion form, these are all placed into a nice metal container (w/ handles) to slide in and out to bring home to charge. And the weight is lighter than the Lead.
The extra Volts translate into that extra "giddy-up" in acceleration, as I believe, or maybe that's the Amps? Either way, between that and the Amps increase, you get faster speed and longer range, and based on what I've seen advertised online, I'd guess Amps increase range more.
~Aggie Rob
droctagon
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Ok, i think i'm understanding now. I hadn't actually looked carefully at the gauge assembly on my bike, but I gather from what you're saying that you can remove each gauge separately from the entire assembly so that you can mix and match different gauges. So if you buy that gauge assembly from Taobao you would just use the speedometer and toss the other two gauges?
How do you like the digital battery meter? I guess it must be a lot more useful than the analog one. I never have a clue how much juice is really left in my battery right now, because at a standstill it might indicate "full" while if i go full throttle it might go right over to "empty".
The 60V battery sounds great! So can the shop get those batteries for you or do you have to order that on Taobao?
aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
I'm gonna order it all through the shop, they are very helpful i think. They have their own supplier for the batteries, and I think they'll even do the taobao for me.
Yes, the gauge assembly can be mixed and matched, i actually like my blinker/high beam pod, the gas-speedometer, and the digital battery gauge. The shop did this for me once already, now for the gas-speedometer next.
The battery gauge will show those fluctuations you're talking about still, but will give you a much better idea of what's really going on. It's supposed to be much easier to use with the Li-ion battery, since those batteries don't have that crawling top speed as you end a battery cycle. ie. it runs at the full top speed all the way until it dies instantly. So KNOWING the battery amount left becomes EXTREMELY important.
~Aggie Rob
droctagon
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Ok, i'll have to go down to the shop and ask them about the various upgrades and prices for these things as compared to Taobao.
To be honest, I didn't have the greatest purchasing experience with these guys, but it sounds as if they've treated you well so I guess they deserve a second chance. It's much easier if I can get them to do everything for me, so it's worth it.
jehey
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
if i may interrupt... would you know where i can buy a half-face helmet? a bit like the one pictured?
i got a vespa-type scooter and i've been really trying to ask around where i can get a good helmet but they can't tell me a thing. thanks.
aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
To be honest, in my case, I went to Hong Kong and got a real motorcycle helmet, granted, it's the half-melon type, similar to what you're showing, but without the ear covering part.
Chinese people may ask why you bother since it's not required, but if you're going faster than all the other bikes on the road, and then upgrade to car-matching speeds, then I suggest keeping your head in this crazy land of lawlessness.
The store I mention has helmets, but the issue in China is that the helmets are often for show only. So I went to Hong Kong where the motorcycle (and subsequently, helmet) laws are quite stringent and got myself something that both looks proper to the bike, and also can keep my head safe once.
Remember, if you drop a helmet or have been through an accident with it, it's no longer safe!
Now I'm also a Hong Konger, so if you want more details, let me know.
~Aggie Rob
james1975
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Hey Man,
Love the look of the scooters, are you still enjoying yours? I've been thinking about getting one for a while and now I really want to get one for the summer. Do you know how much one would be fully loaded? I'm thinking biggest motor, best battery, the digital gauge, the works! Also do you have any connections at the shop, maybe you can help me get a good deal...
Cheers,
James.
aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Hey, glad you're interested, but you may want to do it a step at a time. First off, choose between disc vs. drum brakes, I've seen gas versions with the drum rear before, meaning my twin disc brakes out perform, which i think is only too vital in the ludicrous streets of Beijing. That said, that affects cost. I assume you're talking about go as fast as possible on the biggest battery capacity. You could be looking at near 10,000RMB. And I'm not really discussing the issue of the mods of a bigger headlight, or anything wacky like that.
But then again, we're talking about a bike that goes 80+km/h, at a range of around 120km, and costing around 0.25RMB to charge per cycle. So compare to a gas bike of 4000RMB, petrol prices of RMB 6.90/L, and the issue of not driving inside of 4th Ring. Also consider do you need or have the capability of going that fast on Beijing streets! I think it's worth considering a not so "decked out" bike and running a system that is more in line with traffic.
Let me know what you choose and how it works out!
~Aggie Rob
droctagon
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Hey Rob,
Just a question about the battery... I have noticed that, after riding for some time, if I go to remove the battery the cables and wires are very warm, almost hot. To the point where there are bits of glue melting, and the electrical tape they used in parts is melting as well. Have you noticed this as well? Is this normal? It doesn't seem very safe to me, but if it's normal and that's how they've been doing it for ages now, then I won't worry about it.
Cheers.
aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Indeed, I have noticed this, they do seem warmer now with summer. I just figured it is the heat. As this was no where near the case during winter, when everything was cold. This is one reason for why I want to upgrade batteries to the Li-ion as those are placed into a metal container that has a nice handle and is just one block instead of the two duct-taped sets that I have now. I won't be upgrading for a few months, since I'll be out-of-town. Looking forward to upgrading by August!
~Aggie Rob
aggierob
Re: Turtle King Scooter/Electric Bike (or Honda Joker Clone)
Indeed, I have noticed this, they do seem warmer now with summer. I just figured it is the heat. As this was no where near the case during winter, when everything was cold. This is one reason for why I want to upgrade batteries to the Li-ion as those are placed into a metal container that has a nice handle and is just one block instead of the two duct-taped sets that I have now. I won't be upgrading for a few months, since I'll be out-of-town. Looking forward to upgrading by August!
~Aggie Rob