Cultural differences or just common sense?
I feel like I'm hitting the wall at the moment.
There's things I can't get my head around. Problems which people keep offering the reason of 'cultural differences' for, as if it's something which shouldn't be challenged or attempted to change.
Does anyone have any experiences of trying to make changes when faced with this pissweak excuse for not using commonsense.
Sometimes the same is different, but mostly, it's the same.




wefrucar
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
Care to elaborate?
Sometimes I feel it is maybe unbearable always be traditional Chinese girl.
Nomadz
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
Cultural difference is indeed a convenient excuse for a lot of b.s. in this country.
I don't even bother anymore, I just tell them I think it's b.s..
You'd be surprised how many chinese people actually stop doing this once they know you don't buy the pre-recorded crap they're used to serve to FOB laowais.
But then again, it's not much different from people back home who have no idea why they do or think something, and will hide themselves behind a "it's my choice" or "it's my opinion" (which is even more obviously redundant).
People who actually do act out of cultural difference will never say it - they do something because they don't know any other way, and will be interested in hearing of another way to do things.
Paul
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
As a foreigner/barbarian there are some things that you will simply never be able to understand about China. This is a general view that exists in China and is the national peccadillo, every country has one. I'd say just laugh when someone says it.
'Jiaozi are infinitely complex. As a foreigner you couldn't possibly understand the intricate formula of flour, water and meat. It has taken 5000 years to develop this delicate balance. We have a saying in China...........'
RemmyM
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
Remmy be pimpin' in BJ, yo!
kiwuk
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
I cook some Chinese food, have done for more than 30 years.
OK most Chinese will scoff and say a westerner could not possibly cook Chinese food and therefore not even try it.
Do not tell them who has cooked it and WOW! this is delicious
Men of all sorts take a pride to gird at me: the brain of this foolish-compounded clay, man, is not able to invent anything that tends to laughter, more than I invent or is invented on me.
bobby_liu
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
chinese have man bad cultures
we have bad educations of common senses too
the_remedy (not verified)
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
Chinese people are generally sh*t. Best thing to do is to leave China.
walls
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
Wow Remedy, I used that avatar before the Olympics and they made me change it! Good luck to you
I love my planet Vulcan. I'm proud of being a Vulcan in the universe.
the_remedy (not verified)
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
Hurray for censorship!
sky2rain
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
High population density causes unstable social orders - a simple enough theory. Why can't ppl in China do things like westerners? Try to answer this simpler question: why can't ppl in New York City do things like ppl in Minnesota? There is not much cultural differences (it also depends on how you define culture), just differences.
democracy means that you live among monkeys yet must respect their freedom of speech.
blucat
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
We're not talking about manners, but common sense. People in NY or Tokyo don't walk onto the middle of the road, then stand in stunned silence when they notice a car is on it and about to run them down.
sky2rain
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
well, for a common sense being "common", there requires a majority group of people to agree to and abide it. And the higher population there exists, the harder it is to agree to something that's common. Hence you will observe the difference: chaos.
Statistically, society with higher population is more chaotic than society with less population - that's my simple enough theory.
It may also be that there exists less people in NY or Tokyo don't walk onto the middle of the road, then stand in stunned silence when they notice a car is on it (them minority group of ppl) for you to observe. That may very well be just another statistical fact that may lead you to think it's a difference in culture.
I've just had another interesting thought: for a society with common sense, there exists a majority group of ppl who agree to and practice the common sense and a minority group of renegades who don't use common sense. And for a society without, there is no such distinction because the population ratio of both groups may very well be 50-50. "majority" and "minority" lose their meanings in such society.
democracy means that you live among monkeys yet must respect their freedom of speech.
wave
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
I was referring to the points of family structure and roles within the family unit.
The Grandparent's role in particular.
While holding on to traditional roles and enforcing them so strictly, how can they expect these children to function normally in a multicultural society?
The common reality of the 'Little Emperor' wears thin with me now. How will it go over with others in ten years time?
These are the supposed future leaders of China.
Sometimes the same is different, but mostly, it's the same.
blucat
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
I don't think that the "common" in common sense refers to that. Common sense is the idea that you shouldn't need to specifically teach someone something, that it should just be apparent with a bit of observation and thinking.
We teach this as a skill to children from day one "Why did you do that? What were you thinking? Was that a good idea? What do you think will happen if you do that? Would you jump off the bridge if he did that?"
Actually IMO the OP's question is on the wrong track.
The point is that in Chinese culture, there is no common sense. The idea is rarely to think for yourself. Simply follow tradition and what everyone else is doing.
In terms of population density, Japan beats China by a mile, so your "more people more chaos" theory fails that fairly obvious test I'm afraid.
sky2rain
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
Common sense is the idea that you shouldn't need to specifically teach someone something. And do you ever wonder how to unspecifically teach someone something? monkey see monkey do, that's what common sense is and how it passes from one to another, generation to generation. We aren't just born with all these common senses imprinted in our mind. We unconciously learned those from the suroundings when growing up. And if we were born in a chaotic society with little common sense, then that's just how it is. I am not totally disagreeing with what you're saying here. All I am trying to say is that this happened in China in the last couple centuries. Huge population may very well be just part of the reason that caused it, and there are other reasons behind it. And you're experiencing it here as we speak. But given similar circumstances it could very well happen anywhere.
democracy means that you live among monkeys yet must respect their freedom of speech.
sky2rain
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
More specifically, I'd say what you're discussing here are the modern cultural differences - Chinese culture shaped in the last few couple hundred years with many of its aspects influenced by the west. I could hardly agree that it is the entire culture of China.
The bottom line is that culture is shaped by external factors, not by the blood in people's vains, and I do believe that anyone with a little bit of western scientific common sense should agree.
democracy means that you live among monkeys yet must respect their freedom of speech.
wave
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
The issue I'm interested in is the interaction in today's, and the future society of the children from the current Chinese family unit.
Where can the line be drawn with what is acceptable because it's tradition and the cultural way here, and what is the best option as far as common sense. Because in my mind there is a huge divide between these two.
Sometimes the same is different, but mostly, it's the same.
YunRui
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
I think you're partly right...I see first hand the spoiled children and the education system stinks...but maybe you've overcome those handicaps.
Stay Hungry!
Pain is a requirement, not a curse
Jamie Shorter 13
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
People are generally sh*t. Best thing is to leave the planet.
Just like the Prawns did.
blucat
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
You didn't actually say that in the OP, OP.
It will for sure cause conflict. China is in for one hell of a generation gap at some point.
blucat
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
Well I don't know about that. Although I can comment knowledgeably on the China I see here and now-I don't know what it was like several hundred years ago. However the pattern of the rich exploiting the poor until they finally get pissed off enough to rebel seems a fairly common pattern IMO, suggesting the culture of today has changed little.
Culture is shaped by the people within it. Is that what you mean by an external factor? Funnily enough, I think many Chinese would disagree with you about the blood in the veins not having an effect. In their minds, Chinese are actually "different" biologically. And the longer I'm here, the more I think they might be right.
wave
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
Yeah I was pretty vague in the OP maybe. But it still relates to the core issue I feel, and that's what I was getting at.
Do you think it's just a generation gap though?
How long in Chinese history have these kids been treated like this?
Sky2Rain had a good point about the population issue, and this is just one factor.
Sometimes the same is different, but mostly, it's the same.
sky2rain
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
That raises a philosophical question: does common senses exist before culture or is part of the culture? If there is a huge divide between the common senses and culture, i suppose that you're saying the common senses exist before culture. Pls elaborate.
democracy means that you live among monkeys yet must respect their freedom of speech.
wave
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
Ok then. Let's take it back a few thousand years then to the basics.
If I touch the fire it will burn me and I probably won't touch it again.
This is common sense.
If I raise a child as if it were a baby and my master for 20 years, I will have a 20 year old baby which thinks it is my master.
This is not common sense, but is common practice in China.
Sometimes the same is different, but mostly, it's the same.
sky2rain
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
RE Blucat: More so Chinese are actually different biologically in a good way, and that's what an uneducated Chinese would propose. And by counter-stating, you're trying to express that Chinese are actually different biologically not in a good way, even sometimes a bad way. And that basically sinked yourself to the level of who proposed the original claim.
With my common sense, I'd say Chinese are not actually different biologically.
External refers to "External to the limited set of biological functions animals perform", if you want me to be more specific. And if it's external to the biology, then it's not likely to be something that people are born with.
democracy means that you live among monkeys yet must respect their freedom of speech.
wave
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
I'd certainly agree with you there sky2rain.
It's a learned function, not a biologically inherited one.
My question is if these roles within the Chinese family unit of today are genuine as far as learned tradition from the past, or just as the result of present circumstances in Chinese society.
Basically, would these kids have been bought up with similar values and family structure in the past as they are today.
I think part of this pertains to your views of population effects and family unit structure.
Sometimes the same is different, but mostly, it's the same.
sky2rain
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
I see what you're trying to say elaborate. If I may offer my opinion, the touching fire example is not much of common sense. I do beleive that common sense has to "make sense" to be a common sense. Touching fire illicit pain and there is not much reason behind it to touch it again. Or if you do touch it again, your natural response is to retract your hand quickly before it starts to hurt. Spoilig someone is not a natural response like touching fire. You may see it as BAD for the reasons that you have, and Chinese traditional culture has its reasons as it to be GOOD. And since it is commonly practiced, it becomes their common sense. Again, I do agree with you on the BAD part, but I'd hardly say it's a common sense of the entire planet for it to be BAD. It's just differences betwen our common senses vs traditional culture's common senses, not differences between common sense and traditional culture. Again these are my personal opinions.
democracy means that you live among monkeys yet must respect their freedom of speech.
sky2rain
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
I think these are the reasons behind all traditional Chinese thinking that makes it GOOD common sense: My life savings will eventually become my kid's life savings and for generations to come. It's just a choice of providing them with these at early stage or after leaving this world. It's an honor for me to see my kid using all my resources I can provide to him while I am still alive.
Again, that obviously will hinder the survival skills of the next generation, but the intentions aren't all non-sense. I guess by understanding that it may make you feel better and hopeful. More importantly, I guess the best way to bridge the huge divide is to let your kid understand that intentions and consequenses do not always match up, and he needs to be aware of that.
democracy means that you live among monkeys yet must respect their freedom of speech.
blucat
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
Well that's the old nature vs nurture argument. That ones rapidly going in circles. Twenty years ago the nurture people owned the scene, now the nature side is striking back with increasing evidence that genes play a HUGE role in deciding the kind of people we will be. I haven't heard people extrapolating that out to races yet, but IMO that's a matter of time.
Actually, I think we essentially agreed on the basic point a couple of posts back-that common sense is a cultural thing.
iztel
Re: Cultural differences or just common sense?
To be fair this is just as common in the West too hence tv shows like "Nanny 911". Plenty of spoiled bratty American and British kids. I lived in England for a year and I can honestly say nearly all English people under the age of 21 are complete bastards. Complete contrast to older English people who are extremely polite and kind.
Chinese definitely seem to lack common sense though. The walking into oncoming traffic is a great example. The way they drive also shows a complete lack of common sense and a direct reflect of the "must not lose face" mentality they have. They would much rather honk their horn for hours than give someone else the right of way. The only cars in China should be those belonging to businesses, buses, and taxis. I thought people in NY and NJ were the shittiest drivers until I came here and was amazed.