Want to bring some cash to China and keep it there since the RMB is appreciating. Does anyone know how much I can bring without troubles from the custom?
And what currency can I bring, USD or Euro ? Which has better exchange rate in China?
Want to bring some cash to China and keep it there since the RMB is appreciating. Does anyone know how much I can bring without troubles from the custom?
And what currency can I bring, USD or Euro ? Which has better exchange rate in China?
You can bring in as much as you like, but you are required to declare anything over a certain amount -- generally $5,000.
IMO US$ is more negotiable.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
Why not invest in Gold instead? Gold has gone up 150%-200% against all currencies and will always have intrinsic value.
Ypu have to remember that the RMB is still pegged to the US dollar; sure it could go up. But it's not going to rise nearly as quickly or go up as high as gold.
At the end of the day you have the choice between investing in gold or a piece of colored paper with numbers on it.
Why not invest in Gold instead? Gold has gone up 150%-200% against all currencies and will always have intrinsic value.
Ypu have to remember that the RMB is still pegged to the US dollar; sure it could go up. But it's not going to rise nearly as quickly or go up as high as gold.
At the end of the day you have the choice between investing in gold or a piece of colored paper with numbers on it.
It's your call.
Gold is volatile and the fluctuations can be wide. besides, difficult to carry around $50k in gold in your pocket or to use it when you want to buy something in a hirry.
Also, in China gold is not practical. It can only be bought or sold at a select few government companies and even then not in what they term "good delivery" gold.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
Thanks a lot, i decided to bring some dollers in cash and wire tranfer the rest of the money by opening an new bank account.
Is is easy for foreigners to open a bank account in less than 1hr as they say?
As long as you have a passport and a valid visa it really is easy. Not sure about the 1 hour though. Sometimes there are long waiting periods in the bank and sometimes tellers are not exactly speedy when you get to the window.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
Gold is volatile and the fluctuations can be wide. besides, difficult to carry around $50k in gold in your pocket or to use it when you want to buy something in a hirry.
Its an investment and you can indeed carry small denominations of gold in your pocket. You can also store it in the bank for safe keeping.
Yes it fluctuates, but it's on a bull cycle right now. So it will continue to rise (thank you Bernanke).
Quote:
Also, in China gold is not practical. It can only be bought or sold at a select few government companies and even then not in what they term "good delivery" gold.
Yes it's bought in government stores, but it can also be sold in any black market or pawn shop.
Ultimately its your choice. Gold has gone from $35 in the 1970's to over $1,100 now. Very few investments can match that.
Gold is volatile and the fluctuations can be wide. besides, difficult to carry around $50k in gold in your pocket or to use it when you want to buy something in a hirry.
Its an investment and you can indeed carry small denominations of gold in your pocket. You can also store it in the bank for safe keeping.
Yes it fluctuates, but it's on a bull cycle right now. So it will continue to rise (thank you Bernanke).
Quote:
Also, in China gold is not practical. It can only be bought or sold at a select few government companies and even then not in what they term "good delivery" gold.
Yes it's bought in government stores, but it can also be sold in any black market or pawn shop.
Ultimately its your choice. Gold has gone from $35 in the 1970's to over $1,100 now. Very few investments can match that.
9% per year is not bad.
I like gold, just not in China. Unlike in the US, gold in China is not practical. Too few places to buy and sell and the form it is sold in is not "good delivery" by international standards. If you bring it back home you'll have to pay an assay fee on every unit you sell.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
basically you can not bring more than 5000USD cash into(or out of) China.
and if you have both foreign and domestic bank accounts,and opened the e-banking service as well,it's very easy for you to do the overseas money transfer at home,or your office,just access the internet is OK.
I have overseas relative and friends,when I ask them to buy something for me,it was so boring for waiting in line in front of the bank counter....
till my classmates told me to transfer money online,with pingten.com.
of course if it's not recommended by my classmates,I will worry about the risk.but through his successful experience and their partner relationship with CCB,I tried once,then it becomes my money transfer tools.
I like gold, just not in China. Unlike in the US, gold in China is not practical. Too few places to buy and sell and the form it is sold in is not "good delivery" by international standards. If you bring it back home you'll have to pay an assay fee on every unit you sell.
If by "good delivery" you are referring to the Good Delivery rules from the LBMA, that doesn't sound very practical as we are talking about ~400 tr oz-sized bars!
I had the same concerns as you, and did some research about buying investment gold in China. Firstly, the transaction fees charged over spot price are quite low - for example, China Gold charges 8 RMB/gr when buying and 2 RMB/gr when selling (I'm pretty sure you've seen all the China Gold outlets popping up around the city - there's even one in T3). At the current price of around 300 RMB/gr, that works out to just over 3% round trip. But what's interesting is that China Gold offers a "storage/late delivery" option, whereby you pay now (based on the current spot price) and take delivery later. For the 6 months option, the fee on buying drops to 2 RMB/gr. I'm not sure what to make of this - are they short on supply right now, or is it a hedging strategy in case the price of gold drops later, or both?
Another place to buy gold is of course CaiBai. However, the downside with CaiBai is that it is always so packed there, and what happens if you decide to move to a different city (will China Gold charge a higher fee to buy it from you)?
Secondly, regarding concerns about authenticity/purity and what happens if you decide to leave China and take your gold with you, I was wondering the same thing. Even though the bars here are stamped with 999.9 purity, how can you be sure?
The investment gold bars that are sold at China Gold (and to an extent CaiBai) are from Zhongjin Gold and stamped with CHN GOLD. It so happens that Zhongjin Gold is on the LBMA's Good Delivery list, along with several other Chinese manufacturers:
If you're still not convinced, CaiBai also sells bars from foreign-operated refineries at the same price as the CHN GOLD branded bars, one is Metalor SA and I forget who the other one is (it could be PAMP Suisse). Note that these bars all bear the marks of the foreign brands, but they are actually produced in China. To my knowledge, these foreign-branded bars are not stamped with "made in China" so you probably can't easily tell on visual inspection, but there should be a way to find out from the serial # and/or DataMatrix code.
That said, though Metalor SA is one of the leading gold refiners in the world, Metalor SA's Suzhou refinery has not yet made it to the LBMA Good Delivery List so I'm not sure you'd be better off buying the Chinese-produced Metalor bars over the CHN GOLD bars.
Myself, I'll probably end up buying some of the Metalor minted bars as I think they look pretty cool with the DataMatrix code, along with China Gold bars.
By the way, the bars from China Gold have a unique look to them for a cast bar:
I like gold, just not in China. Unlike in the US, gold in China is not practical. Too few places to buy and sell and the form it is sold in is not "good delivery" by international standards. If you bring it back home you'll have to pay an assay fee on every unit you sell.
If by "good delivery" you are referring to the Good Delivery rules from the LBMA, that doesn't sound very practical as we are talking about ~400 tr oz-sized bars!
Secondly, regarding concerns about authenticity/purity and what happens if you decide to leave China and take your gold with you, I was wondering the same thing. Even though the bars here are stamped with 999.9 purity, how can you be sure?
One aspect of good delivery has to do with whether or not the particular mint is trusted and you can thus avoid assay fees when selling.
Of course, if you plan on keeping your investment physically within China, you can eliminate the issue of having to pay an assay fee when selling, but unless your bars are on the good delivery list or you sell to a complete moron in the US, you will likely be paying an assay fee when you sell outside of China. Also, if the bar(s) you are selling are not commercially tradeable in the market in which you are selling, the dealer will charge a premium when you sell to them.
The worst I have encountered when trading bars considered good delivery is a specific gravity test which any intelligent dealer can conduct -- for free.
If I were sure I were going to keep it all in China, I'd buy at any one of the places you mentioned.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
basically you can not bring more than 5000USD cash into(or out of) China.
5,000 USD in Cash taking out of China, yes.
You can bring upto USD50,000.- in Cash into China ( the upper limit amount of Foreign Currency an individual can exchange into RMB over one year ( 01 Jan - 31 Dec ) !
One aspect of good delivery has to do with whether or not the particular mint is trusted and you can thus avoid assay fees when selling.
Of course, if you plan on keeping your investment physically within China, you can eliminate the issue of having to pay an assay fee when selling, but unless your bars are on the good delivery list or you sell to a complete moron in the US, you will likely be paying an assay fee when you sell outside of China. Also, if the bar(s) you are selling are not commercially tradeable in the market in which you are selling, the dealer will charge a premium when you sell to them.
The worst I have encountered when trading bars considered good delivery is a specific gravity test which any intelligent dealer can conduct -- for free.
If I were sure I were going to keep it all in China, I'd buy at any one of the places you mentioned.
That is good to know, thanks.
So which do you think would be more tradeable outside of China - bars of a domestic brand (China Gold) whose refinery is on the LBMA gold delivery list, or bars from a well-known Swiss manufacturer (Metalor SA) but whose China refinery is not yet listed on the gold delivery list?
One aspect of good delivery has to do with whether or not the particular mint is trusted and you can thus avoid assay fees when selling.
Of course, if you plan on keeping your investment physically within China, you can eliminate the issue of having to pay an assay fee when selling, but unless your bars are on the good delivery list or you sell to a complete moron in the US, you will likely be paying an assay fee when you sell outside of China. Also, if the bar(s) you are selling are not commercially tradeable in the market in which you are selling, the dealer will charge a premium when you sell to them.
The worst I have encountered when trading bars considered good delivery is a specific gravity test which any intelligent dealer can conduct -- for free.
If I were sure I were going to keep it all in China, I'd buy at any one of the places you mentioned.
That is good to know, thanks.
So which do you think would be more tradeable outside of China - bars of a domestic brand (China Gold) whose refinery is on the LBMA gold delivery list, or bars from a well-known Swiss manufacturer (Metalor SA) but whose China refinery is not yet listed on the gold delivery list?
I would avoid bars with "Chinese characteristics". I have always had luck with JM, Englehard, Credit Suisse or Pamp Suisse. Personally, though, my all-time favorites are coins. There is probably not a place on thie Earth (except, maybe, for China) where you cannot easily liquidate Canadiam Maple Leafs or Gold American Eagles.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
I would avoid bars with "Chinese characteristics". I have always had luck with JM, Englehard, Credit Suisse or Pamp Suisse. Personally, though, my all-time favorites are coins. There is probably not a place on thie Earth (except, maybe, for China) where you cannot easily liquidate Canadiam Maple Leafs or Gold American Eagles.
I've seen some dealers overseas selling the Chinese Panda coins, though I don't know what the fees for buying/selling those are like over here.
I would avoid bars with "Chinese characteristics". I have always had luck with JM, Englehard, Credit Suisse or Pamp Suisse. Personally, though, my all-time favorites are coins. There is probably not a place on thie Earth (except, maybe, for China) where you cannot easily liquidate Canadiam Maple Leafs or Gold American Eagles.
I've seen some dealers overseas selling the Chinese Panda coins, though I don't know what the fees for buying/selling those are like over here.
Actually, I like those coins. There is a certain built-up demand for them in the US so they are relatively easy to liquidate. However, for strictly investment purposes I probably would include very few Chinese Pandas in my precious metals portfolio.
Unlike American Silver Eagles and Canadian Maple Leafs, the Chinese Panda commands more of a purchase premium in the US without the demonstrated scarcity which usually necessitates the premium. As a result, a significant percentage of a Chinese Panda's resale value is numismatic related whereas in Eagles and Maple Leafs it is almost exclusively related to world gold / silver prices.
I have been able to purchase Pandas in China for less than in the US.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
Actually, I like those coins. There is a certain built-up demand for them in the US so they are relatively easy to liquidate. However, for strictly investment purposes I probably would include very few Chinese Pandas in my precious metals portfolio.
Unlike American Silver Eagles and Canadian Maple Leafs, the Chinese Panda commands more of a purchase premium in the US without the demonstrated scarcity which usually necessitates the premium. As a result, a significant percentage of a Chinese Panda's resale value is numismatic related whereas in Eagles and Maple Leafs it is almost exclusively related to world gold / silver prices.
I have been able to purchase Pandas in China for less than in the US.
I have read that unlike the US and Cdn gold coins, the design of the Chinese Panda changes every year (except for '01/'02), which can help to increase demand amongst collectors. It seems there are also some special issues (for example, Year of the Rabbit), though as these are more limited I'm guessing they will have a higher markup. In any case, I'll look into these as I've always had an interest in coins.
And the next time I visit a country, I'll make sure to research if they offer gold coins. I've been to Malaysia twice without realizing that they have a gold coin (the Kijing Emas).
Actually, I like those coins. There is a certain built-up demand for them in the US so they are relatively easy to liquidate. However, for strictly investment purposes I probably would include very few Chinese Pandas in my precious metals portfolio.
Unlike American Silver Eagles and Canadian Maple Leafs, the Chinese Panda commands more of a purchase premium in the US without the demonstrated scarcity which usually necessitates the premium. As a result, a significant percentage of a Chinese Panda's resale value is numismatic related whereas in Eagles and Maple Leafs it is almost exclusively related to world gold / silver prices.
I have been able to purchase Pandas in China for less than in the US.
I have read that unlike the US and Cdn gold coins, the design of the Chinese Panda changes every year (except for '01/'02), which can help to increase demand amongst collectors. It seems there are also some special issues (for example, Year of the Rabbit), though as these are more limited I'm guessing they will have a higher markup. In any case, I'll look into these as I've always had an interest in coins.
And the next time I visit a country, I'll make sure to research if they offer gold coins. I've been to Malaysia twice without realizing that they have a gold coin (the Kijing Emas).
You are correct. The Panda design does change each year and also the mintage is somewhat limited, unlike the US and Canadian bullion coins.
Pandas are great coins, but one just needs to understand that there is more than just the market price of gold in play when using them as investment vehicles. Having numismatic value, there is more opportunity for gains / losses that do not correlate to precious metals prices.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
gdbill
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
You can bring in as much as you like, but you are required to declare anything over a certain amount -- generally $5,000.
IMO US$ is more negotiable.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
Anon
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
Why not invest in Gold instead? Gold has gone up 150%-200% against all currencies and will always have intrinsic value.
Ypu have to remember that the RMB is still pegged to the US dollar; sure it could go up. But it's not going to rise nearly as quickly or go up as high as gold.
At the end of the day you have the choice between investing in gold or a piece of colored paper with numbers on it.
It's your call.
gdbill
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
Gold is volatile and the fluctuations can be wide. besides, difficult to carry around $50k in gold in your pocket or to use it when you want to buy something in a hirry.
Also, in China gold is not practical. It can only be bought or sold at a select few government companies and even then not in what they term "good delivery" gold.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
leviper
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
Thanks a lot, i decided to bring some dollers in cash and wire tranfer the rest of the money by opening an new bank account.
Is is easy for foreigners to open a bank account in less than 1hr as they say?
gdbill
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
As long as you have a passport and a valid visa it really is easy. Not sure about the 1 hour though. Sometimes there are long waiting periods in the bank and sometimes tellers are not exactly speedy when you get to the window.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
Anon
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
Its an investment and you can indeed carry small denominations of gold in your pocket. You can also store it in the bank for safe keeping.
Yes it fluctuates, but it's on a bull cycle right now. So it will continue to rise (thank you Bernanke).
Yes it's bought in government stores, but it can also be sold in any black market or pawn shop.
Ultimately its your choice. Gold has gone from $35 in the 1970's to over $1,100 now. Very few investments can match that.
gdbill
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
9% per year is not bad.
I like gold, just not in China. Unlike in the US, gold in China is not practical. Too few places to buy and sell and the form it is sold in is not "good delivery" by international standards. If you bring it back home you'll have to pay an assay fee on every unit you sell.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
slonios
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
basically you can not bring more than 5000USD cash into(or out of) China.
and if you have both foreign and domestic bank accounts,and opened the e-banking service as well,it's very easy for you to do the overseas money transfer at home,or your office,just access the internet is OK.
I have overseas relative and friends,when I ask them to buy something for me,it was so boring for waiting in line in front of the bank counter....
till my classmates told me to transfer money online,with pingten.com.
of course if it's not recommended by my classmates,I will worry about the risk.but through his successful experience and their partner relationship with CCB,I tried once,then it becomes my money transfer tools.
Nidaye
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
If by "good delivery" you are referring to the Good Delivery rules from the LBMA, that doesn't sound very practical as we are talking about ~400 tr oz-sized bars!
I had the same concerns as you, and did some research about buying investment gold in China. Firstly, the transaction fees charged over spot price are quite low - for example, China Gold charges 8 RMB/gr when buying and 2 RMB/gr when selling (I'm pretty sure you've seen all the China Gold outlets popping up around the city - there's even one in T3). At the current price of around 300 RMB/gr, that works out to just over 3% round trip. But what's interesting is that China Gold offers a "storage/late delivery" option, whereby you pay now (based on the current spot price) and take delivery later. For the 6 months option, the fee on buying drops to 2 RMB/gr. I'm not sure what to make of this - are they short on supply right now, or is it a hedging strategy in case the price of gold drops later, or both?
Another place to buy gold is of course CaiBai. However, the downside with CaiBai is that it is always so packed there, and what happens if you decide to move to a different city (will China Gold charge a higher fee to buy it from you)?
Secondly, regarding concerns about authenticity/purity and what happens if you decide to leave China and take your gold with you, I was wondering the same thing. Even though the bars here are stamped with 999.9 purity, how can you be sure?
The investment gold bars that are sold at China Gold (and to an extent CaiBai) are from Zhongjin Gold and stamped with CHN GOLD. It so happens that Zhongjin Gold is on the LBMA's Good Delivery list, along with several other Chinese manufacturers:
http://www.lbma.org.uk/pages/index.cfm?page_id=29&title=gold_list
If you're still not convinced, CaiBai also sells bars from foreign-operated refineries at the same price as the CHN GOLD branded bars, one is Metalor SA and I forget who the other one is (it could be PAMP Suisse). Note that these bars all bear the marks of the foreign brands, but they are actually produced in China. To my knowledge, these foreign-branded bars are not stamped with "made in China" so you probably can't easily tell on visual inspection, but there should be a way to find out from the serial # and/or DataMatrix code.
(Image above from http://www.monstersandcritics.com/blogs/theworldinpictures/article_15437... )
That said, though Metalor SA is one of the leading gold refiners in the world, Metalor SA's Suzhou refinery has not yet made it to the LBMA Good Delivery List so I'm not sure you'd be better off buying the Chinese-produced Metalor bars over the CHN GOLD bars.
Myself, I'll probably end up buying some of the Metalor minted bars as I think they look pretty cool with the DataMatrix code, along with China Gold bars.
By the way, the bars from China Gold have a unique look to them for a cast bar:
http://www.goldbarsworldwide.com/PDF/BG_10_Categories.pdf
http://www.goldbarsworldwide.com/PDF/BI_7_GoldKilobars.pdf
gdbill
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
One aspect of good delivery has to do with whether or not the particular mint is trusted and you can thus avoid assay fees when selling.
Of course, if you plan on keeping your investment physically within China, you can eliminate the issue of having to pay an assay fee when selling, but unless your bars are on the good delivery list or you sell to a complete moron in the US, you will likely be paying an assay fee when you sell outside of China. Also, if the bar(s) you are selling are not commercially tradeable in the market in which you are selling, the dealer will charge a premium when you sell to them.
The worst I have encountered when trading bars considered good delivery is a specific gravity test which any intelligent dealer can conduct -- for free.
If I were sure I were going to keep it all in China, I'd buy at any one of the places you mentioned.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
admirerdr
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
5,000 USD in Cash taking out of China, yes.
You can bring upto USD50,000.- in Cash into China ( the upper limit amount of Foreign Currency an individual can exchange into RMB over one year ( 01 Jan - 31 Dec ) !
Nidaye
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
That is good to know, thanks.
So which do you think would be more tradeable outside of China - bars of a domestic brand (China Gold) whose refinery is on the LBMA gold delivery list, or bars from a well-known Swiss manufacturer (Metalor SA) but whose China refinery is not yet listed on the gold delivery list?
gdbill
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
I would avoid bars with "Chinese characteristics". I have always had luck with JM, Englehard, Credit Suisse or Pamp Suisse. Personally, though, my all-time favorites are coins. There is probably not a place on thie Earth (except, maybe, for China) where you cannot easily liquidate Canadiam Maple Leafs or Gold American Eagles.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
Nidaye
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
I've seen some dealers overseas selling the Chinese Panda coins, though I don't know what the fees for buying/selling those are like over here.
gdbill
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
Actually, I like those coins. There is a certain built-up demand for them in the US so they are relatively easy to liquidate. However, for strictly investment purposes I probably would include very few Chinese Pandas in my precious metals portfolio.
Unlike American Silver Eagles and Canadian Maple Leafs, the Chinese Panda commands more of a purchase premium in the US without the demonstrated scarcity which usually necessitates the premium. As a result, a significant percentage of a Chinese Panda's resale value is numismatic related whereas in Eagles and Maple Leafs it is almost exclusively related to world gold / silver prices.
I have been able to purchase Pandas in China for less than in the US.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
Nidaye
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
I have read that unlike the US and Cdn gold coins, the design of the Chinese Panda changes every year (except for '01/'02), which can help to increase demand amongst collectors. It seems there are also some special issues (for example, Year of the Rabbit), though as these are more limited I'm guessing they will have a higher markup. In any case, I'll look into these as I've always had an interest in coins.
And the next time I visit a country, I'll make sure to research if they offer gold coins. I've been to Malaysia twice without realizing that they have a gold coin (the Kijing Emas).
gdbill
Re: How much cash can I bring to China ?
You are correct. The Panda design does change each year and also the mintage is somewhat limited, unlike the US and Canadian bullion coins.
Pandas are great coins, but one just needs to understand that there is more than just the market price of gold in play when using them as investment vehicles. Having numismatic value, there is more opportunity for gains / losses that do not correlate to precious metals prices.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???