Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the Most To
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cn88 says it's China. In a jocular vein, I said it was the Neanderthal. But, seriously, what ancient culture does the world owe the most to? Myself, I'd say to Rome. In particular to the Roman notion of rule by law. Look at history, look at the world today: the notion that all citizens should be bound by the same law is a fragile and sometime thing. There are wide, wide swaths of the world where the notion that government service is not a vehicle to personal and familial wealth is laughable. BUT, these notions are ideals that have been implemented to a significant degree in the West (though presently under attack from within.) And they are ideals that have toppled---and continue to topple--- governments on every continent. So, Rome has my vote. (Yeah, yeah I know that Rome did a poor job at living up to these much past the end of the Republic. Bu the time the last of the Five Good Emperors had been buried, so were these ideals so fas as practice goes.)
Note: do not try to correct my grammar, telling me that the title should be, "To Which Ancient Culture &c" The prohibition on dangling prepositions is an import from Latin. Ending a sentence with a preposition is as old as the English language itself. Before the fad for classical learning in the Elizabethean era, no one had ever much talken offense at such. I admire the politics of the Romans, not their language.)
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Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Posted by: pnkearns on Apr 4, 2010 7:47am xenophon wrote:
Note: do not try to correct my grammar, telling me that the title should be, "To Which Ancient Culture &c" The prohibition on dangling prepositions is an import from Latin. Ending a sentence with a preposition is as old as the English language itself. Before the fad for classical learning in the Elizabethean era, no one had ever much talken offense at such. I admire the politics of the Romans, not their language.)
A Texan is on the Harvard campus and he stops someone and asks "Say, can you tell me where the library is at?"
The Harvard student replies, "At Hawvuhd (Harvard), we don't end a sentence in a preposition."
The Texan replies, "Sorry, say, can you tell me where the library is at, a**hole?"
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** Playing Between The Bars **
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Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Posted by: pnkearns on Apr 4, 2010 8:18am Back to the thread topic, I have to give credit we owe to the Romans and the Brits.
The Romans, though not a very inventive people, conquered a huge section of the world, took the best inventions of everyone they conquered and spread them, then created one standard of government rule that included much of what we have today, representative government and the Justinian code - which is the basis of law for Europe, their former colonies (including the U.S.) and Japan (not sure why they adopted it). You also have to remember the Roman influence was global not just during the height of Rome, but for another 1000 years out of Constantinople while most of Europe fell into the Dark Ages and crawled back out.
The Brits get my nod for being the next culture with global reach in spreading their philosophy of government and culture with the British empire. As far as cultural influence spreading goes, I see the U.S. as a spin off the Brits. The U.S. just got annoyed at the Brits and threw them out. 
As Xenophon points out, Gandhi's India was founded by a British lawyer, Gandhi. If you go to India today, the culture is so obvious British that they Indians outdo the Brits in being British. The Indians got annoyed at the Brits and threw them out. But we both kept the British cultural system.
As for China, I don't dismiss its vast history. But China has chosen to isolate itself for much of its history, e.g. Great Wall and retreating to the Middle Kingdom.
Other major cultures were great, in their isolated areas. Egypt was isolated to the northern Africa/Middle East region. Greece was in Greece/Turkey/Aegean area. Yeah, I know.... Alexander the Great. His empire was flame on - flame out of one or two generations. The Romans spread more Greek culture than the Greeks did. Same issue with the new world cultures - Mayan & Aztec. Great empires, but localized to their regions.
My two cents. About what it is worth. Crack open another brew. B)
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Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Posted by: zhenlai on Apr 4, 2010 10:41pm 
- Joined: Mar 18th, 2010
- Posts: 740
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Posted by: cn88longshao on Apr 4, 2010 10:42pm xenophon wrote:
cn88longshao wrote:
i think you got me confused. i never claimed that china alone made the world.it was zhenlai and herbie the dj etc who claimed that america saved the entire world. herbie also claimed that toyota was western and german
the contemporary world today is a mix mesh of cultures and technologies. many are from china, middle east and europe.
we should give thanks to all these great cultures.
the proper way to compete is through the economy and education. not through barbaric acts of war like the american invasion of iraq and afghanistan or the british invasions of india and so much of the world.
such barbaric acts cannot bring long lasting prosperity. britain has been defeated all over the world and now only have their lonely cold island to call home. and now they cant steal other countries's riches, they are in steep decline ever since the 1950s.
My apologies. You write intelligently enough when you want to. Don't put Britain down too badly, however. Their empire was a remarkable feat. The British were never a numerically great people. And when that empire was dissolved, it was on the basis of values the British themselves had imported. Case in point: Gandhi was only half Hindu holy man. He was also a British-trained lawyer who knew how to play on the values of his adversary.
Britain a "cold, lonely island"? To people born there, that's normal and home. If it sucks so badly, why is one quarter of Pakistan living there, and the rest clamoring to get in?
you are exagerating. yes of course many migrants from poor english speaking countries want to migrate to the uk and ireland since they are the only 2 countries in europe that speak english. but attracting migrants from third world countries isn't really something much to boast about.
the british empire was great? yes greatest abuse of human rights and democracy in the history of man.
Have departed from this forum for good bcus the moderator blocks every one of my post. They continue to bash China unfairly but cannot accept the facts about Britent etc. They are obviously very insecure to resort to silencing me. ZHONG GUO WAN SUI!
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Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Posted by: SnappySammy on Apr 6, 2010 5:32am 
- Joined: Feb 1st, 2006
- Posts: 3,279
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Posted by: blucat on Apr 6, 2010 7:06am cn88longshao wrote:
the british empire was great? yes greatest abuse of human rights and democracy in the history of man.
Which Chinese dominated regions/countries have the highest standard of living?
Hong Kong and Singapore and Malaysia.
What else do they have in common?
They were run by the British for a century or so.
Coincidence?
I have some questions for you Longshao which I really hope you answer honestly-
have you ever been out of China?
Do you realize there are places where things don't fall apart after about three days?
DO you realize there are places where cars stop if they see people waiting to cross on pedestrian crossings?
Do you realize there are places where people are still living in well designed stylish houses that are as old as the Forbidden City and in better condition?
Do you realize there are places where if someone has an accident, others will immediately try to help?
Do you realize there are places where generals and police officers don't drive Mercedes and BMW's bought through corruption and vice?
DO you realize there are places where no one lives in a mud brick hut?
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Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Posted by: Mockingbird on Apr 6, 2010 8:45am Quote:
Which Chinese dominated regions/countries have the highest standard of living?Hong Kong and Singapore and Malaysia.
What else do they have in common?
They were run by the British for a century or so.
so true...HK and Macau are possibly the only 2 cities they can brag about...
The UK has done many stupid things but it is a great country no doubt!
No words are racist. Actions are racist.
Say what you need to explain yourself.
If you are not racist it will shine through.
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Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Posted by: MrTang on Apr 6, 2010 8:54am 
- Joined: Jun 26th, 2007
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Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Posted by: Monkey King on Apr 6, 2010 9:35am - Joined: Jun 26th, 2007
- Posts: 5,480
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Posted by: Monkey King on Apr 6, 2010 9:36am blucat wrote:
cn88longshao wrote:
the british empire was great? yes greatest abuse of human rights and democracy in the history of man.
Which Chinese dominated regions/countries have the highest standard of living?
Hong Kong and Singapore and Malaysia.
What else do they have in common?
They were run by the British for a century or so.
Coincidence?
I have some questions for you Longshao which I really hope you answer honestly-
have you ever been out of China?
Do you realize there are places where things don't fall apart after about three days?
DO you realize there are places where cars stop if they see people waiting to cross on pedestrian crossings?
Do you realize there are places where people are still living in well designed stylish houses that are as old as the Forbidden City and in better condition?
Do you realize there are places where if someone has an accident, others will immediately try to help?
Do you realize there are places where generals and police officers don't drive Mercedes and BMW's bought through corruption and vice?
DO you realize there are places where no one lives in a mud brick hut?
QFT
"China is a big country, inhabited by many Chinese."
--Charles de Gaulle
wave
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Geez Xen. Bit heavy for a Satdee night.
You either need to stop smoking/drinking now, or start.
Sometimes the same is different, but mostly, it's the same.
xenophon
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
If I don't start drinkin', yer gonna leave?
cn88longshao
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
i think you got me confused. i never claimed that china alone made the world.
it was zhenlai and herbie the dj etc who claimed that america saved the entire world. herbie also claimed that toyota was western and german
the contemporary world today is a mix mesh of cultures and technologies. many are from china, middle east and europe.
we should give thanks to all these great cultures.
the proper way to compete is through the economy and education. not through barbaric acts of war like the american invasion of iraq and afghanistan or the british invasions of india and so much of the world.
such barbaric acts cannot bring long lasting prosperity. britain has been defeated all over the world and now only have their lonely cold island to call home. and now they cant steal other countries's riches, they are in steep decline ever since the 1950s.
Have departed from this forum for good bcus the moderator blocks every one of my post. They continue to bash China unfairly but cannot accept the facts about Britent etc. They are obviously very insecure to resort to silencing me. ZHONG GUO WAN SUI!
herojuana
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Something tells me xenophon is a teetotaler.
How
Evil
Robots
Operate
xenophon
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
My apologies. You write intelligently enough when you want to. Don't put Britain down too badly, however. Their empire was a remarkable feat. The British were never a numerically great people. And when that empire was dissolved, it was on the basis of values the British themselves had imported. Case in point: Gandhi was only half Hindu holy man. He was also a British-trained lawyer who knew how to play on the values of his adversary.
Britain a "cold, lonely island"? To people born there, that's normal and home. If it sucks so badly, why is one quarter of Pakistan living there, and the rest clamoring to get in?
blucat
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
NO, you're confused. The title of the thread is "Owes the MOST to", not "Who alone made the world."
I don't really see the logic in your last paragraph. China surely has had as violent and shaky a history as any other region or country?
xenophon
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
I'm the Muzzie, remember? Though, the Ottoman Empire did go through a phase in the 1500's when coffee was nearly banned as transgressing the Quranic prohibition on "wine." Me? I gotsta have my COFFEEEEE!
xenophon
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
To borrow a phrase from Obama, mebbe the Chinese were "waging peace", not war. If big O. can win a Peace Prize with shite like that, I'll let cn88 borrow it and apply it to China.
wave
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Yes, China has well and truly taken over that role.
Sometimes the same is different, but mostly, it's the same.
xenophon
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
I don't see the PLA "protecting Chinese interests" on foreign soil. A Anglo-American vice, that, in recent centuries.
silkywave
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Really?
ur hot..is that why ur sweating?
Herbz
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
1. The actual topic was you denying that without the US, you'd be wearing a Kimono.
2. The Car is a German invention but the way you "put it" Toyota is an invention that I can't live without.
Far better things to do on a saturday night than argue with you. Stew away!
VIDEO
Soundcloud tracks
Some mixes
xenophon
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
I don't get it either. The U.S. has military bases in over a hundred foreign countries. Most of its combat troops are parked apparently to stay in the Middle East. The embassy under construction in Baghdad is the largest in the world. Britain is a dog on a short U.S.-handled leash. And foreigners in this forum talk about the rapacious PRC.
herojuana
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
I have never accused you of being a Muslim.
I'm not Kiwuk.
If you are, you are, I don't mind either way.
I just seem to remember you being overly judgemental of people who imbibed one thing or the other.
How
Evil
Robots
Operate
xenophon
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Your memory is a lot longer than your d***, I'm wagering. It's odd though...people who profess no particular creed or values so persistently cling to the dictum, "Judge not." Why? It can't be because it's wrong. After all, every civilized person knows to a certainty that there "is" no right or wrong. The problem must be that one should not be judgemental because being judgemental is, like, so judgemental. And no one would want to be that...though the precise reason why seems to have eluded us again, hasn't it?
zhenlai
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
You can believe me or you can ignore me that I cannot control, but The United States and Great Britain are the only hedges against the world being taken over by some power i.e. Russia or China that would use its influence to gain the favor of smaller, poorer nations and lead a revolt bringing us into a world of authoritarianism.
I perceive you as a highly intelligent being who insists on fairness for all and stands for good against evil. However, I think you may be a bit near sighted, or perhaps influenced by your party member spouse, and are unable to clearly see the methods employed by "The Government" of this nation.
I know not what you have read concerning the methods of the communists in their drive to dominate the world. The Chinese people are not communists, neither were the Russian people, but their government is an ardent communist body and their desires have not changed with the so called "Opening" of China. They are just sitting back waiting for their moment.
美国鬼子
joe_blow
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
They're in Sudan protecting oil fields for the same government who promotes genocide against black Christians in the south.
They'll also be in Afghanistan soon when China builds the world's largest copper mine there.
silkywave
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Dear zhenlai, I have to say that what you worry doesn't mean it would happen indeed. It was the western countries came to china to rob but not china ever did such kind of thing.
China is a peaceful country. Don't take china as an imaginary enemy.
If you really think so, I guess you are stirred up by your country machine. You are very typical to have this misunderstanding towards china. You are really 'formatted' very well though you aren't aware of the fact at all. And if western people always draw up things and continue to deceive yourself platonic, things would go towards a ridiculous way.
If american people continue to think so stubbornly, I guess our countries can never agree with each other on anything.
But I can understand the alert heart of countries to each other, it is not only american worries about russia/china, russia/china worry about american as well. And obviously american did a lot of things showing the wild ambition to rule the world.
ur hot..is that why ur sweating?
kiwuk
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
You are all neglecting the Lizard People!
Men of all sorts take a pride to gird at me: the brain of this foolish-compounded clay, man, is not able to invent anything that tends to laughter, more than I invent or is invented on me.
zhenlai
Re: Seriously, What Ancient Culture Does the World Owe the ...
Dear zhenlai, I have to say that what you worry doesn't mean it would happen indeed. It was the western countries came to china to rob but not china ever did such kind of thing.
China is a peaceful country. Don't take china as an imaginary enemy.
If you really think so, I guess you are stirred up by your country machine. You are very typical to have this misunderstanding towards china. You are really 'formatted' very well though you aren't aware of the fact at all. And if western people always draw up things and continue to deceive yourself platonic, things would go towards a ridiculous way.
If american people continue to think so stubbornly, I guess our countries can never agree with each other on anything.
But I can understand the alert heart of countries to each other, it is not only american worries about russia/china, russia/china worry about american as well. And obviously american did a lot of things showing the wild ambition to rule the world.
Silky when I consider how to reply to you I must take into account the ignorance of the common Chinese person pertaining to their history. If a government is the spirit and embodiment of a people then for its entire history China has been a violent, aggressive nation which has founded itself on the basis of war and ill treatment of societies especially their own.
I would like for you to count and tell me how many "Civil Wars" have been fought inside of China before 1950. For the simple answer all you must do is count the dynasties, excepting what China calls the "Yuan" and the "Qing" which weren't dynasties at all but other nations who conquered and ruled China.
Since 1950 how many nations has China invaded? For this answer we can even count Taiwan because before 1945 there was no time in history when the island of Taiwan was an integral part of the nation of China. So when Chiang Kai Shek invaded Taiwan in 1949 he was invading a land that did not belong to him. In this list we can include Tibet, which also has NEVER, been a part of China, Korea, India, Vietnam and incursions into Russian territory.
At present China is carrying on the work of earlier European invaders and is raping Africa of its resources and lowering the standard of living for the common person on that continent.
Perhaps at heart the common Chinese person is a peaceful person, but so are the great majority of people around the world. As I stated earlier the government of a nation embodies the spirit and attitude of a nation and I will once again,emphatically, state that The United States and Great Britain are the only wall of defense that a free world has against the evil of authoritarianism or totalitarianism.
If the U.S. must continue to fight war after war to maintain the freedom of the world's citizens then I say "So Be It".
There is much more I could say on this subject but I will leave it at this for now because few people wish to read my rantings.
美国鬼子