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no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, or mainland buddhism

china did not destroy tibetan culture, only foriegner will think that way, china treasure tibet as part of china, and china treature tibetan culture as part of chinese culture.
zhenlai, i don't think you and your fellows understand tibet or tibetan buddhism,
actually buddhism is very different from western culture,
buddhism origninate from india, and now it bloosom in china, buddhism have already lost it's charm in india,
so i would say although buddhism is foriegn culture, but it's inevditably integral part of chinese culture.
china's local culture only consist of confucius and taoism, but starting from when buddhism penetrate to china,
the three have more become inseperatable.
During ming and qing dynasty ,more and more scholar have contribute to mix the three different tradition.
buddhism emphasize and atman, it means void of self. it coincide with taoism teaching
i used to read many sutras, so i think many forumer in TBJ, have not exceed me in this area.
i think alot of foriegner think tibet is the last piece of pure land, is because they lack of knowledge, in buddhism in china mainland.
i have accidentally read some tibetan buddhism material.
actually people who don't pratice tibetan buddhism ,are forbidden to read them, so it become more and more mysterious to outsider.
but actually the stuff that dalai lama sell to westener are very superficial stuff in buddhism,
i don't think many foriengner understand buddhism, because they cannot read chinese, and many buddhism sutra is written in chinese.
so they hardly can touch the essence of buddhism, either tibetan or mainland buddhism.
buddhism teach empty of self, no self,
no interference of action, when doing there is no doer.
alot of this stuff contradict the western culture,
nothing more like westerner culture like to admits there is a self. And because of it, they emphasize on have good accomodation, good food, good clothes.
All this are being criticized by buddhism, because buddhism teach there is no self, so all the happiness bring to yourself, is meaningless according to buddhism teaching
zhuangzi teach the highest happiness is no happiness,
it's not saying chinese have no happiness, it's saying chinese realise when there is a gain ,there is a lose, when you are happy when you possess something, similarly when you don't have something you feel sad.
so chinese think we should not be bothered ,by gaining or losing of some possession. we should be peaceful throughout the time, no matter, we are rich or we are poor.
i think the best way to be enlightement, is through no self. That is unite with nature, see beyond a human can see.
i don't think logic or science could explain that,
moreover i think logic and science are obstacle to enlightment.
you see when i explain all this stuff, i just want to prove that, foriegner don't know buddhism
buddhism is so different from western traiditon, moreover i should say it contradict the foundation of foriegn culture.
china is the largest country in terms of buddhism pratitioner,
many han chinese practice tibet buddhism, i cannot believe that you say china is destroy tibet culture.
tibetan culture is part of china's culture, china cannot destroy it's own culture.
i will wait until you can refute me,


Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

Excuse me but you are the one that has no idea what you are talking about.

China is destroying Tibet and you cannot deny it. However, you will deny it. We get angry. Tibet gets destroyed and the aggressive han get happy.

美国鬼子

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

The practice of Buddhism in Tibet and China are very different. China has been trying to supress and extinguish the Tibetan forms of Buddhist practices.

Stay Hungry!

Pain is a requirement, not a curse

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

china is assimilate it , not destroy it,
many han practise tibetan buddhism,

i just don't see tibetan buddhism lost it's charm yet.

although chinese government do did alot of administrative control there,
i would say, yes, CPC is a atheist party, but as you said, china have been far away from socialist country.
so people practise religion have not be interefered by CPC.
i didnot practise any religion, so i don't know whether a religious gathering is being monitered by government.
but in many city, there are many people practise, islam, and catholics
there is a very famous church in my city.
i think we have alot freedom in practising religion.
but CPC haven't give tibet alot of freedom,
so the people actually control tibet is han
but for the sake of stablity , i think until this time, government still cannot grant the full freedom of autonomy.
dalai lama is most high ranking lama in tibet, but he is a separatist. i don't know the details how he and the CPC govenment end up in a separate way.
but i think as long as he want to separate tibet from china, it's cannot be tolerated.
i think he is far more than a lama, so what he does, we have to take political concern.
as i don't know much about him, i think i will skip it.
i think CPC trying to lift up the wellfare of tibetan people. they build road, railway, to accelerate the prosperity of tibetan people, i see it's nothing wrong.
and most tibetan people are happy with what CPC does.

i think what dala lama does, is far more political than religious.
if you read buddhism teaching, monk are forbid to interfere political issue.
i have not been to tibet, i don't know firsthandedly what they think about CPC.
But from some information on TV or internet, i think there are no much resentment about CPC government

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

The bottom line is that the han are destroying Tibet for the sake of evil. Although you will deny it, you really cannot deny it.

美国鬼子

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

YunRui wrote:
The practice of Buddhism in Tibet and China are very different. China has been trying to supress and extinguish the Tibetan forms of Buddhist practices.

is it? i see alot of people practise tibetan buddhism, you say china is trying to supress tibetan form of buddhism, in what way? i don't think so
many of the foundation of teaching of both tibetan buddhism and han buddhism are very similar, so i don't see how CPC is going to destroy it.
could you elaborate?

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

My parents converted to Tibetan Buddhism 8-9 years ago. I have no idea what that entails or how 'authentic' it is, but it's something they believed in enough to decide to focus their lives on.

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

zhenlai wrote:
The bottom line is that the han are destroying Tibet for the sake of evil. Although you will deny it, you really cannot deny it.

you should elaborate, otherwise, it just looks like to others that, whatever CPC do, you guys always think it's evil

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

白人 wrote:
My parents converted to Tibetan Buddhism 8-9 years ago. I have no idea what that entails or how 'authentic' it is, but it's something they believed in enough to decide to focus their lives on.

when comes to religion, it's not what you believe ,
"the authentic" really matters, so why among the christianity pratitioner, one group of it always criticize others as heretic

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

cyrusbobo wrote:
china cannot destroy it's own culture.

I agree, after 76 there was nothing left of it.

Quote:
The Cultural Revolution was particularly devastating for minority cultures in China. In Tibet, over 6,000 monasteries were destroyed. In Inner Mongolia, some 790,000 people were persecuted, of these 22,900 were beaten to death and 120,000 were maimed,[25] during a ruthless witchhunt to find members of the allegedly "separatist" Inner Mongolian People's Party, which had actually been disbanded decades before.

It happened..... jeez next you'll be trying to deny the holocaust or Nanjing massacre.

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

cyrusbobo wrote:
zhenlai wrote:
The bottom line is that the han are destroying Tibet for the sake of evil. Although you will deny it, you really cannot deny it.

you should elaborate, otherwise, it just looks like to others that, whatever CPC do, you guys always think it's evil

Communism is formed out of evil and it remains in evil. Other than the Nazi the communists are the most evil form of government in history. Genghis Khan, you know the MONGOLIAN who was not chinese in any way, did not murder as many people or cause as much destruction and hardship as communists have in the last 93 years.

美国鬼子

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

but i also agree that, as long as a religion do good for you, you should adhere to it,
but when it comes to argumentation sake, i really think there is nothing more superior of tibetan buddhism,
foriegner just don't know alot about buddhism, and tibetan buddhism , is also buddhism, as long as it's buddhism , it does good.
but han buddhism have not been so active recently, because for the knowledge i have about buddhism, buddhism is a passive religion,
only some guy who get confused about life, and seeking help from monks, they will teach you, not otherwise.
so buddhism is not like chritianity or islam, it's passive,
it really donot matter, you believe or not, if you are happy with your life, you don't need buddhism, because, they say, confusion is the seeds of buddhism, if a people is happy with his life, it really don't matter, if he is not a buddhism practitioner.
and tibetan lama, have good education on english, so they canot promote tibetan buddhism to west, while ,han buddhism, the monk are not as literate as tibetan lama in english, so they cannot promote it, that's why i think in the other country there are so many tibetan buddhism practitioner, so few han buddhism pratitioner

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

Herbie wrote:
cyrusbobo wrote:
china cannot destroy it's own culture.

I agree, after 76 there was nothing left of it.

Quote:
The Cultural Revolution was particularly devastating for minority cultures in China. In Tibet, over 6,000 monasteries were destroyed. In Inner Mongolia, some 790,000 people were persecuted, of these 22,900 were beaten to death and 120,000 were maimed,[25] during a ruthless witchhunt to find members of the allegedly "separatist" Inner Mongolian People's Party, which had actually been disbanded decades before.

It happened..... jeez next you'll be trying to deny the holocaust or Nanjing massacre.

i have to admit, culture revolution do alot damage, that's why many educated chinese hate mao. But it's over already, CPC have realise how wrong, when we want to impose marxist view to ordinary chinese, so many wrong thing in culture revolution have been corrected.

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

cyrusbobo wrote:
Herbie wrote:
cyrusbobo wrote:
china cannot destroy it's own culture.

I agree, after 76 there was nothing left of it.

Quote:
The Cultural Revolution was particularly devastating for minority cultures in China. In Tibet, over 6,000 monasteries were destroyed. In Inner Mongolia, some 790,000 people were persecuted, of these 22,900 were beaten to death and 120,000 were maimed,[25] during a ruthless witchhunt to find members of the allegedly "separatist" Inner Mongolian People's Party, which had actually been disbanded decades before.

It happened..... jeez next you'll be trying to deny the holocaust or Nanjing massacre.

i have to admit, culture revolution do alot damage, that's why many educated chinese hate mao. But it's over already, CPC have realise how wrong, when we want to impose marxist view to ordinary chinese, so many wrong thing in culture revolution have been corrected.

Nothing has been corrected. You still enslave people and destroy cultures and incarcerate people who are more capable of moving China out of the dark ages than your government is. You cannot possibly turn your eyes that blindly to the injustice and evil that faces the Chinese people everyday. God, Cyrus, your own people are treated like dogs and you say so many good things are happening here. OPEN YOUR EYES.

美国鬼子

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

zhenlai wrote:
cyrusbobo wrote:
zhenlai wrote:
The bottom line is that the han are destroying Tibet for the sake of evil. Although you will deny it, you really cannot deny it.

you should elaborate, otherwise, it just looks like to others that, whatever CPC do, you guys always think it's evil

Communism is formed out of evil and it remains in evil. Other than the Nazi the communists are the most evil form of government in history. Genghis Khan, you know the MONGOLIAN who was not chinese in any way, did not murder as many people or cause as much destruction and hardship as communists have in the last 93 years.

damn, of course you american hate socialism, US is the most hostile country to communism, but as you said, the fever of communism have past in china's history. Now the top of the agenga of CPC is the develope economy. You can say communism is evil. because, one great philosopher said, although he didnot agree with communism, but he think the people who design communism , have the most kind heart, and he design commuism is for the best of the all human being.
i should remind you ,communism is a experiment, just like plato design a Utopia, and in early settlement of america, the british also design alot of experment in Georgia, virginia, or other region.
if you read history about georgia, they immigrant they brought to georgia is poor people ,homeless people, incapable people, who cannot survive in britain, but the elite think it's easy to make money in american , and to transport them in american, not only can get rid of poverty, but also could increase the economical soundness of UK.
they used to want to graze silkworm in georgia, and many expert say say the climate in Georgia is very good to graze silkworm, but the history prove it wrong, georgia cannot graze silkworm, the silk produced in georgia is of bad quality, so in the early settlement of america, there are alot of experiment going on, like puritan experiment to build a country according to their teaching, quaker(religious society of friends)
experiment to build a different society. i think if you read history about US, you know what i am talking, it hard to write in english, when the book i read is in chinese

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

zhenlai wrote:
cyrusbobo wrote:
Herbie wrote:
cyrusbobo wrote:
china cannot destroy it's own culture.

I agree, after 76 there was nothing left of it.

Quote:
The Cultural Revolution was particularly devastating for minority cultures in China. In Tibet, over 6,000 monasteries were destroyed. In Inner Mongolia, some 790,000 people were persecuted, of these 22,900 were beaten to death and 120,000 were maimed,[25] during a ruthless witchhunt to find members of the allegedly "separatist" Inner Mongolian People's Party, which had actually been disbanded decades before.

It happened..... jeez next you'll be trying to deny the holocaust or Nanjing massacre.

i have to admit, culture revolution do alot damage, that's why many educated chinese hate mao. But it's over already, CPC have realise how wrong, when we want to impose marxist view to ordinary chinese, so many wrong thing in culture revolution have been corrected.

Nothing has been corrected. You still enslave people and destroy cultures and incarcerate people who are more capable of moving China out of the dark ages than your government is. You cannot possibly turn your eyes that blindly to the injustice and evil that faces the Chinese people everyday. God, Cyrus, your own people are treated like dogs and you say so many good things are happening here. OPEN YOUR EYES.

i really don't understand what you are talking, the people around me, are quite happy with their life, i didnot see they are enslaved, and i have to remind you, slavery is being implement in souther part of US, not china, there is no slavery in china,i don't know where your "enslave "come from

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

cyrusbobo wrote:
zhenlai wrote:
cyrusbobo wrote:
zhenlai wrote:
The bottom line is that the han are destroying Tibet for the sake of evil. Although you will deny it, you really cannot deny it.

you should elaborate, otherwise, it just looks like to others that, whatever CPC do, you guys always think it's evil

Communism is formed out of evil and it remains in evil. Other than the Nazi the communists are the most evil form of government in history. Genghis Khan, you know the MONGOLIAN who was not chinese in any way, did not murder as many people or cause as much destruction and hardship as communists have in the last 93 years.

damn, of course you american hate socialism, US is the most hostile country to communism, but as you said, the fever of communism have past in china's history. Now the top of the agenga of CPC is the develope economy. You can say communism is evil. because, one great philosopher said, although he didnot agree with communism, but he think the people who design communism , have the most kind heart, and he design commuism is for the best of the all human being.
i should remind you ,communism is a experiment, just like plato design a Utopia, and in early settlement of america, the british also design alot of experment in Georgia, virginia, or other region.
if you read history about georgia, they immigrant they brought to georgia is poor people ,homeless people, incapable people, who cannot survive in britain, but the elite think it's easy to make money in american , and to transport them in american, not only can get rid of poverty, but also could increase the economical soundness of UK.
they used to want to graze silkworm in georgia, and many expert say say the climate in Georgia is very good to graze silkworm, but the history prove it wrong, georgia cannot graze silkworm, the silk produced in georgia is of bad quality, so in the early settlement of america, there are alot of experiment going on, like puritan experiment to build a country according to their teaching, quaker(religious society of friends)
experiment to build a different society. i think if you read history about US, you know what i am talking, it hard to write in english, when the book i read is in chinese

It is also probably a lie.

美国鬼子

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

no , it's written by american, translated by chinese, it's not a lie ,i am sure

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

@Cyrusbobo,

The difference between your country and my country is that no matter what the government says you can always find the truth and talk about it and confront the government with it and get something done to correct the evil that has occurred.

In your country the government only allows the lie to perpetuate into the truth and the people have nothing else to believe except what the government says. You, my friend, are a victim of this evil.

美国鬼子

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

what i write, is not through government, it's what i read by myself.
i am pretty sure about what i write.
yes, CPC maybe teach us something which is not true, but i happens everywhere.like in japan , they skip the chapter of japanese invasion to china,
they don't teach about the disaster they caused in china
maybe i am not right about certain thing i raised, like dala malai,
did CPC do something unfair to him, push him to flee to other country,
but i tell you ,what i know is not being design by government, it's from, the conversation i have with my friend, or the books i read, i didn't think CPC could make me blind.
if CPC have done something wrong to tibet, please elaborate, so that i will not be so blind.

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

i am going home to have dinner, i will talk to you later

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

cyrusbobo wrote:
foriegner just don't know alot about buddhism

how can han chinese know more about tibetan buddism than foreigners? to a tibetan, a han is basically a foreigner. speaks a different language has a different culture and history.

if the han understood tibetans and the dalai lama they would allow tibet to have the autonomy it needs to nurture its culture and respect whoever they want as their spiritual leader, rather than choosing their spiritual leaders for them through politics rather than religio. the dalai lama already said he is fine with tibet being a part of china as long as tibetans are allowed to have real autonomy, which currently they do not.

don't you think?

Trust me, it's so danger.

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

nanananayeah wrote:
cyrusbobo wrote:
foriegner just don't know alot about buddhism

how can han chinese know more about tibetan buddism than foreigners? to a tibetan, a han is basically a foreigner. speaks a different language has a different culture and history.

if the han understood tibetans and the dalai lama they would allow tibet to have the autonomy it needs to nurture its culture and respect whoever they want as their spiritual leader, rather than choosing their spiritual leaders for them through politics rather than religio. the dalai lama already said he is fine with tibet being a part of china as long as tibetans are allowed to have real autonomy, which currently they do not.

don't you think?

You are truly my hero. I am not worthy even to kneel in your presence.

美国鬼子

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

First of all plenty of foreigners do understand 'buddhism' and the concept of the unlocatable self (see www.dharmafield.org 'Buddhism Plain and Simple - Steve Hagan, 'Love and work - Zen,' Charlotte Joko Beck.
It is a radically different philosophy to the western philosophy of the self being the most important. However, it is becoming more popular in the west and you are totally wrong in thinking no foreigners understand the teaching of the dharma.
Anyway, what passes as 'buddhism' in Asia now is rarely little more than fortune telling, or something to pray to when someone dies or wants a new job - i.e. a religion, which is totally not what the buddha originally taught.
He taught not clinging to concepts, a self, and simply focussing on being 'awake'.
Also, the fact that a lot of sutras are in Chinese is irrelevent as, many of the great chan teachers of the Tang dynasty said, you don't need books, or sutras, you simply need to be awake and to focus on your own mind.
Also, Tibetan and 'Chinese' /chan, nothern/southern school are totally different. Tibetan incorporates bonn and a lot of folk tales/mythology, whereas Chan is influenced by Taoism!

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

and furthermore i seriously do not believe that modern chinese people have anything personally against tibetans. i also believe that the chinese government is bringing the tibetan people good things, education, clean water, electricity etc. (whether that supports their agenda by teaching tibetans putonghua and bringing them CCTV is a whole discussion.) and that feudalism wasn't necessarily a good thing.

i have heard that less educated chinese people have superstitions about them, and believe they are dirty and poor (well, a lot are dirty and poor basically because most of it is a totally undeveloped place, i know, i have been there). but of course a populace who has been repressed spiritually and culturally have underlying anger, and of course the government sees religion as a powerful means of communication and connection. no wonder they want to suppress it. but suppression of culture and religion is not a good way forward! ultimately it does no good. and when the china and the government get to a place where mostly everyone is happy, i think they will look back on what they did to tibet with regret, as any good human who suppressed another would.

the question is whether or not tibetan language, culture and buddhism can withstand that time period and remain authentic and autonomous without being wiped out, turned in to a theme park, or without any more bloodshed.

what do you think cyrus? i am genuinely interested to hear your viewpoint.

Trust me, it's so danger.

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

zhenlai wrote:

You are truly my hero. I am not worthy even to kneel in your presence.

considering i am so hungover i can barely stand i am pretty impressed with myself for even stringing a sentence together!
B)

Trust me, it's so danger.

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

Lady GaGa told me that she loves me.

It's not very easy to fk life, but to be fked by life is always you have to endure.

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

Is this the guy who thinks cnlongshao humiliated Chinese people?

Bottlenecking

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

yes, why?

Trust me, it's so danger.

Re: no offense, i don't think foriegner understand tibetan, ...

nanananayeah wrote:
cyrusbobo wrote:
foriegner just don't know alot about buddhism

how can han chinese know more about tibetan buddism than foreigners? to a tibetan, a han is basically a foreigner. speaks a different language has a different culture and history.

if the han understood tibetans and the dalai lama they would allow tibet to have the autonomy it needs to nurture its culture and respect whoever they want as their spiritual leader, rather than choosing their spiritual leaders for them through politics rather than religio. the dalai lama already said he is fine with tibet being a part of china as long as tibetans are allowed to have real autonomy, which currently they do not.

don't you think?

you don't understand ,what is autonomy in his definition, i think china have grant a large autonomy to tibet, although the person in charge of tibetan affair is still han, but tibetan people have become more and more involved.
many tibetan buddhism sutra is written in chinese as well, so i could know it

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