Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud
- Joined: Apr 22nd, 2007
- Posts: 26
The F visa situation is terrible, most likely something to do with the census. In the meantime, the now starving visa agents, desperate for business, are trying to sell unsuspecting and naive foreigners Z visas (resident permits or RP). These are offered for sale by Visa Farms that are essentially dummy companies set up by people with friends/relatives in the Beijing Commerce Bureau with permission to hire X number of foreigners. They serve no other purpose than to get RPs. With the correct forms from these Visas farms, the foreign applicant can successfully defraud the Labor and Social Security Bureaus in order to apply for a one-year multiple-entry RP from Gong An . This fraud is much more serious than getting a dubious letter of invitation for the F Visa. It is fairly easy to spot this fraud if there is ever any serious checking (as with a census, or if you are ever cited, or just in a general crackdown, for example). Also there are serious tax issues as holders of RPs (Z Visa) have to pay tax. If the Visa farm claims that they will pay it for you or that there is no tax liability, they are pulling your leg in order to get the business. Keep in mind, if something goes wrong, since these visa farms are dummy companies, they will run away (along with the visa agent), fold up, etc, leaving you to suffer the consequences by yourself. It could mean jail, or deportation if you are caught. And you will still owe the tax. Remember, these scammers have only one goal and that is to make the sale. After that, they don’t care a fen for you.
gdbill
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud
You are absolutely correct!
One of the so-called visa agents on this forum just sent me PM spam offering me a RP.
The thief / fraud artist's name is:
monica
visa agent
15901281624
Email/MSn: monicazeng@hotmail.com
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
baiyunma
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud
This is from today’s Global Times.
Lin Song, a publicity official at the exit-entry administration, reminded foreigners in Beijing to stay alert to fishy visa service agencies, especially those found online or in advertisements.
Lin adding that as long as one prepares the required documents, the visa extension process is quite simple.
http://www.globaltimes.cn/www/english/metro-beijing/update/society/2010-...
This is a good reminder to be careful of visa scammers. With regards to the current Z visa (Resident Permit) scams now so poplar among the starving visa agent crowd, any agent that offers to get you a Z visa (RP) when you do not have a job that qualifies for it, is inviting you to commit fraud against 4 different government agencies (commerce, labor, tax, and the police). If at any time one of these departments runs a check and finds out you have defrauded them, it is jail, fines, deportation, or all the above. I have known a couple of cases personally over the years where foreigners got caught messing with these kinds of things and actually did end up in jail. The government takes it seriously.
Getting a F visa based on a dubious letter of invitation is one thing, committing outright fraud against the Chinese government to get a fake RP (a.k.a Z visa) is another matter completely. Exercise caution.
baiyunma
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud
A friendly reminder for those considering succumbing out of desperation to the visa agents wishing to help you defraud the Chinese government to get a RP (Z Visa) for work purposes (see my above comments). If ever in the future you do get a job from an real employer that can get you a real RP, a background check on your previous employment in China may be done. PSB / Gong An may not necessarily do the check as they normally will issue the RP if the other agencies have given their approvals, but the Beijing Commerce and Labor Bureaus who are providing PSB with the chops (approvals) that allow you to work here, often do them. It is just a routine background check to see if all of your previous employment ducks are in order. Obviously, if they discover that you were employed by a ‘ghost employer’ (visa farm), they will either not give their approvals (= no RP) or worse yet, turn you in to the cops.
Do not be fooled by the visa agents who only see you as the source of their income: no visas, no money. You are ultimately responsible when you sign those forms and not them. And never forget while you are here, the cops always know where you live.
baiyunma
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud
Just a friendly reminder.
Seems like there is still a lot of desperate starving visa agents out there. Don’t be taken in. Fraud is fraud, no matter what they call the visa.
mysyki
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud BAIYUNMA Where do you work?
Baiyunma!!!
May ask for whom are you working for? You sound like those who passed the Marx/Lenin/Mao/Deng/Jiang/ gailun courses with the best scores. I.e.You work for the those in the Immigration who have not yet set up their own visa agents in the town.
I know also many who were caught and they were ALL just friendly reminded that you are fooled, given 10 days exit visa and sometimes blacklisted i.e. denial to return to China for 2/5 yrs.
NONE went to jail for this. China still has decent laws.
Also I know some who have a real job in the real company who is according to the law allowed to hire foreigners and support Z visa. BUT, they were told that you do need to find someone with GUANXI in the Immigration, before they can do it. So again, those who work in the Immigration and want the Z done thru their agents inorder to make the extra bucks. Unless you work for multi-national big corporate.
So Please stop spamming this site with your ADVERTISEMENTS of certain sides.........China is not a monster who puts people into prison for a Z visa fraud. Unless you are also a prostitute and a drug dealer....
gdbill
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud BAIYUNMA Where do you work?
You are either stupid or a liar.
There are currently at a minimum 3 dozen in the immigration lockup in Guangdong who are on fraudulently obtained "F" and "Z" visas and are not prostitutes or drug dealers. Of course, not many of them are WASPs, but then we all know how that works.
Just because you believe that a company can legally hire expats does not make it true. If you have all the necessary documentation and your company has all the necessary approvals from the Labor Department, you do not need an agent nor will the PSB recommend you use one.
Don't let your limited experience and the fact that you spent seven years in second grade fool you into believing you know WTF you are talking about.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
HuanChu
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud BAIYUNMA Where do you work?
Source?
A very smart man wrote:
gdbill
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud BAIYUNMA Where do you work?
Nigerian Consulate. Family member who is US Consulate staff.
Also personal observations since Guangzhou immigration lockup is in building within walking distance of old US Consulate in Guangzjou. It's a seedy looking hostel with guards and black people hanging over the balcony yelling.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
baiyunma
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud
I also know personally three foreign nationals here in BJ that did short times in jail for RP related problems. They all had unpaid tax bills that came along with their RP, which might have provoked the ire of the Chinese government. Don’t mess with the tax man! Each work RP comes along with a tax obligation, since it was given on the basis that you are here working. This makes it very different from a F visa. I have been here for twenty years and was a former chief rep of a foreign company. It is not like I don’t have any experience in dealing with visa situations. If there is anyone who is pimping for the visa agents, its myskyi. Most likely his girlfriend is one of the shady visa agents who was making lots of money before, ripping off unknowing foreigners desperate for a visa to stay here. I am just passing along information. People will have to make up their own minds whether or not to purchase a black market RP (a.k.a. Z visa). As long as you know the fraudulent RP is neither risk free or cheap, you can decided on your own.
mysyki
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud
The last posts were all very information.
This is what I wanted to learn about. More detailed facts instead of ranting on here without bravely disclosing hard facts. I do agree since you have presented your evidence.
I can see that this lock in a jail is targeted on certain demographic section of the foreign population in this country.
To clarify I do not encourage anyone to do this illegal Z visa business.
Interesting is the fact that all this visa issue started in August when Wen Jia Bao had his famous speech in Schenzen about China should opening up and more freedom of speech. Ever since hard time for foreigners and his speeches as well censored by the Party. Not to mention recent developments within and outside of the club.
gdbill
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud
On a somewhat related note, there are Filipinas currently in immigration lockup awaiting deportation.
It is not unheard of for some expats to hire a Filipina ayi and obtain visas for them through underhanded visa agents. The PSB is not stupid and neighbors donotice ayis that look Chineseish but cannot speak any Chinese. I have personally seen two families given 24 hours to GTF out of China for having illegal ayis and the ayi themselves held for actual deportation.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
mysyki
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud BAIYUNMA Where do you work?
gdbill
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud
While it would be false to claim that everybody will get caught if they get an underground "Z" or "X" visa, the fact is that some, albeit few, do find themselves with problems. Everybody thinks it can't happen to them. The real question is, just how lucky are you?
If -- and it's unfortunate that it comes to this -- you are not a WASP, your odds are worse. If you are from Asia, even worse yet. From Africa ... the odds are better in Vegas.
There are just too many ways to get caught -- it's not exactly rocket science. There are also tax implications. To expect that things will not get worse (i.e. stricter) is not based on reality.
I suppose if one has no other options available to them, I guess it's worth a shot. I, personally, would do anything to avoid it or take steps to minimize the damage if I were to get caught.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
baiyunma
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud
I also do not think that the F and L visa situation will return to the wild west days anytime soon, if ever. The Hemmingway’s of the future will have to move on to some other place to hang out. Many of my foreign friends who are filling professional level positions and have been here for awhile are even experiencing greater scrutiny (trouble) in renewing their RPs, let alone those trying to get a F visa without a legally recognized job. One can only speculate on the reasons. Maybe they just want to enforce their visa laws. Other countries do the same. It could be in response to Obama’s Secret War on China and they are getting nervous about having too many foreigners here. Would not be the first time. The F visa clampdown might have something to do with tax avoidance and other regulatory compliance issues concerning both Chinese employers and foreign employees. And we should not underestimate the impact of the returnees. As more professional level foreign educated bi-lingual Chinese return, it would only seem natural that the number of expats would reduce. It is cheaper for multi-nationals to hire them over expats that come here with super-expensive packages. The Chinese government would be wise to promote this for a host of reasons and one way to do so would be through visas. Again, nothing different from any other developed country. And if the silent war between the US and China ever gets louder, don’t be surprised to see a wholesale move back home by a good many of the expats and their families.
gdbill
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud
As a nation progresses it's only natural that they develop and enforce their immigration and visa regulations. Although nobody can be 100% sure, I would tend to believe visa regulations will mature we'll see less of the Wild West days.
I do not, however, see returnees in and of themselves as threatening to expat staff. We have over 220 expats on staff and well over 10,000 local individuals. The vast majority of our expats are holding positions which require technical expertise that is all but impossible to find in the local talent market. Returnees would be totally unqualified for these positions.
We have, however, localized junior and middle management positions years ago. Returnees, the vast majority without any real work experience let alone management experience, would also initially be unqualified for these positions.
Where returnees may have an impact is on entry-level or junior positions. That said, we do not hire returnees because of several insurmountable problems we have experienced. First is that returnees have an over-inflated sense of self worth. Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, is that the idea of returnees somehow being more highly qualified than those educated domestically is a total myth. While certainly not all, a significantly large percentage of those that have received graduate or post-graduate education abroad after getting their undergraduate degree locally are, in spite of their overseas education, unsuitable. Attempting to whitewash a substandard to mediocre performance at a virtually third-rate local university by buying a foreign degree does not mean inherent quality. A monkey in a silk dress is still a monkey.
Those expats we have on staff that are not in technical positions are in upper management and will not be localized now or in the foreseeable future. The expats in those positions are here because either the board of directors has more confidence in them or because they have management skills impossible to find in the local market at present.
"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???
Patcol90
Re: Beware of Z (RP) Visa Fraud
So its impossible to get F visas at all now?? =\