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freelance fapiao

Question: My friend and I are looking to do a one-time translation thing (a reputable company needs a few dozen documents in English), but the woman who wants to hire us for it says we need to provide her with a legit fapiao so she can reimburse us (in the past, I've always just been handed a big, red, wad of cash, with the company providing the fapiao). Neither of us has our own business or has really dealt with this before, so how should we do this? My friend is in Beijing, I'm in the U.S. with a paypal account, so I thought about using that, even though that obviously means paypal would take a huge cut.

Does anyone have a brilliant solution, besides looking to buy a fake fapiao in a dark alley?

Thanks in advance!

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.


Re: freelance fapiao

yam wrote:
Question: My friend and I are looking to do a one-time translation thing (a reputable company needs a few dozen documents in English), but the woman who wants to hire us for it says we need to provide her with a legit fapiao so she can reimburse us (in the past, I've always just been handed a big, red, wad of cash, with the company providing the fapiao). Neither of us has our own business or has really dealt with this before, so how should we do this? My friend is in Beijing, I'm in the U.S. with a paypal account, so I thought about using that, even though that obviously means paypal would take a huge cut.

Does anyone have a brilliant solution, besides looking to buy a fake fapiao in a dark alley?

Thanks in advance!

How does paypal resolve the issue of "Legal Invoice"?
What is the issue ? You are providing a service ( translation of documents into English ) and are to be paid for this service once you submit an invoice. Instead of "buying" a fake invoice, try to go through any legal translation office, they may provide you the required "fapiao" at a certain fee. That will be legal and will meet the payer's requirements.

Re: freelance fapiao

Hi Yam,

No worries. That is easy and legal to fix. I've just sent you a pm.

Cheers,
Amber Xu

Re: freelance fapiao

yam wrote:
Question: My friend and I are looking to do a one-time translation thing (a reputable company needs a few dozen documents in English), but the woman who wants to hire us for it says we need to provide her with a legit fapiao so she can reimburse us (in the past, I've always just been handed a big, red, wad of cash, with the company providing the fapiao). Neither of us has our own business or has really dealt with this before, so how should we do this? My friend is in Beijing, I'm in the U.S. with a paypal account, so I thought about using that, even though that obviously means paypal would take a huge cut.

Does anyone have a brilliant solution, besides looking to buy a fake fapiao in a dark alley?

Thanks in advance!

Never -- ever -- trust any of the Chinese hacks here spamming visa / legal / financial services. They are all fraud artists.

Your problem has a very safe, simple and legal solution. Fa piaos for informal freelance services are issued directly by -- and ONLY by -- the Tax Bureau itself. You go to the tax bureau with your ID and give the the entity that will pay you and the amount they will pay you. The tax authorities issue a fa piao and you pay the appropriate income tax on the amount. That is the ONLY legal method that does not involve you committing fraud.

"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???

Re: freelance fapiao

Actually gdbill, I am neither a fraud nor a hack, but a legitimate lawyer that can offer a simple and legal solution to the op's problem. Notice I wrote, ‘solution’, not ‘service’. As far as spamming, I fail to see how offering an answer to the op's problem is anything more than that, answering a question. My husband's business (which is part of our firm) does this kind of translation work and can simply treat the op as a sub-contractor. Thereby, offering a legitimate fapio from a recognized and legal translation firm and thus solving the issue. Note: without committing fraud. It is also a way for him to make contacts with quality translators and editors, as he is looking for good help all the time. It just seemed easier than standing in line in the bureaucratic madness that can be any government agency. Besides, the idea of "informal" freelance work is technically illegal in China without the proper visa and expert certification. While it is true that this is rarely enforced, a meeting with the wrong clerk who is having a bad day could cause the op trouble. As a freelancer, the op cannot simply go to the tax bureau without having a registered business or the appropriate certification and if that were the case, he or she could offer their own fapio or go to the tax bureau and there never would have been an issue.

In this case, I was not offering any services, just speaking on behalf of my husband. We were trying to help someone out and make a few connections in the business.

Seriously, I understand that China and this forum are full of hacks and fraudsters; but why all of the immediate cynicism and hostility? Is this forum simply so that we can all chuckle at Bobby Liu’s inanity and flame each other? Or is it a place for people to connect, seek/give advice or expand their business reputation? How do we differentiate between legitimate offers of help or service and ‘spamming’?

This is exactly why we hesitated using this platform for business or even social interaction. There is just too much negativity.

Think about this; unless we all start finding trusted contacts, whether for personal or business reasons, and learn to tell friend from fraud, then things will never improve and we can all just continue with our usual cynical, pessimistic distrust of all things Chinese.

Re: freelance fapiao

beijinglawservice wrote:
Actually gdbill, I am neither a fraud nor a hack, but a legitimate lawyer that can offer a simple and legal solution to the op's problem. Notice I wrote, ‘solution’, not ‘service’. As far as spamming, I fail to see how offering an answer to the op's problem is anything more than that, answering a question. My husband's business (which is part of our firm) does this kind of translation work and can simply treat the op as a sub-contractor. Thereby, offering a legitimate fapio from a recognized and legal translation firm and thus solving the issue. Note: without committing fraud. It is also a way for him to make contacts with quality translators and editors, as he is looking for good help all the time. It just seemed easier than standing in line in the bureaucratic madness that can be any government agency. Besides, the idea of "informal" freelance work is technically illegal in China without the proper visa and expert certification. While it is true that this is rarely enforced, a meeting with the wrong clerk who is having a bad day could cause the op trouble. As a freelancer, the op cannot simply go to the tax bureau without having a registered business or the appropriate certification and if that were the case, he or she could offer their own fapio or go to the tax bureau and there never would have been an issue.

In this case, I was not offering any services, just speaking on behalf of my husband. We were trying to help someone out and make a few connections in the business.

Seriously, I understand that China and this forum are full of hacks and fraudsters; but why all of the immediate cynicism and hostility? Is this forum simply so that we can all chuckle at Bobby Liu’s inanity and flame each other? Or is it a place for people to connect, seek/give advice or expand their business reputation? How do we differentiate between legitimate offers of help or service and ‘spamming’?

This is exactly why we hesitated using this platform for business or even social interaction. There is just too much negativity.

Think about this; unless we all start finding trusted contacts, whether for personal or business reasons, and learn to tell friend from fraud, then things will never improve and we can all just continue with our usual cynical, pessimistic distrust of all things Chinese.

It is really nice of you to offer to make money at the expense of the original poster.

Unfortunately you fail to understand how personal services fa piaos operate. As a freelancer the OP is not in any way required to have a registered company or any certification to obtain a fa piao for freelance work. The process is rather simple: any person with a pulse shows up at the tax bureau and requests to obtain a fa piao for personal services rendered. The tax bureau does ask for your name, ID number and the legal name of the company for which you are performing services, but you are not asked to produce said ID and thus what visa status you are on is irrelevant.

The tax bureau will tell you the fee / tax due, you pay it and they give you the fa piao which you then deliver to the client who pays you. The first 800 RMB per month is tax free.

Trolling for business is fine, but next time you might want to get your story straight before trying to sucker someone for a piece of their pie.

"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???

Re: freelance fapiao

Whoa! You tell him, baby!

She has got a point there. And no, I'm not agreeing with her just to keep from sleeping on the couch.

gdbill, you seem to be someone who would appreciate making connections in the business world, as you seem to know a lot about finance. Isn't it possible that some of us here, other than yourself, are actually trying to do honest business?

Please understand, if my wife were a fraud I never would have married her. We both work very hard to build a good reputation and a solid client base. We also like to help fellow expats out and try and connect with some decent folks in this crazy place. Is that wrong?

Yam, we would be happy to help you out with this and talk about sending some work your way if you are qualified and interested.

Is that spamming?

Re: freelance fapiao

Caduceus wrote:
Whoa! You tell him, baby!

She has got a point there. And no, I'm not agreeing with her just to keep from sleeping on the couch.

gdbill, you seem to be someone who would appreciate making connections in the business world, as you seem to know a lot about finance. Isn't it possible that some of us here, other than yourself, are actually trying to do honest business?

Please understand, if my wife were a fraud I never would have married her. We both work very hard to build a good reputation and a solid client base. We also like to help fellow expats out and try and connect with some decent folks in this crazy place. Is that wrong?

Yam, we would be happy to help you out with this and talk about sending some work your way if you are qualified and interested.

Is that spamming?

I'm sorry that your business is doing so poorly that you have to troll here confusing people with how they can conduct their business by giving you a cut.

"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???

Re: freelance fapiao

Uhh, we weren't planning on charging anything beyond covering the taxes. And occasionally, they do require a COPY of your i.d. As you know, things here can be really random. I really don't see why you have such a problem with us. No one here is trying to sucker anyone. No one wants to visit the tax bureau, when you can meet with a fellow expat, have a cup of coffee and maybe get some work out of it.

And perhaps it is you, who should get your story straight before making accusations. Now, I will politely ask you to keep you tone civil and your unfounded accusations to yourself.

Re: freelance fapiao

Actually our business is doing so well that I will waste no more time responding to you.

Re: freelance fapiao

Good luck.

Oh, and the copy of the ID is a nice touch. Not true, though, but then not totally unexpected.

Feel free to troll through again some time when business is slow.

"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???

Re: freelance fapiao

Caduceus wrote:
Actually our business is doing so well that I will waste no more time responding to you.

Isn't it a bit unethical to use a Caduceus in your logo?

美国鬼子

Re: freelance fapiao

Why would that be zhenlai?

Re: freelance fapiao

Caduceus wrote:
Why would that be zhenlai?

Does your consulting have something to do with medical care? If it doesn't then I do not think it is appropriate to use a Caduceus to advertise yourself.

美国鬼子

Re: freelance fapiao

I think you mean the Rod of Asclepius.

From Wikipedia- 'By extension of its association with Mercury/Hermes, the caduceus is also a recognized symbol of commerce and negotiation, two realms in which balanced exchange and reciprocity are recognized as ideals. This association is ancient, and consistent from the Classical period to modern times. The caduceus is also used as a symbol representing printing, again by extension of the attributes of Mercury (in this case associated with writing and eloquence).

The caduceus is sometimes mistakenly used as a symbol of medicine and/or medical practice, especially in North America, because of widespread confusion with the traditional medical symbol, the rod of Asclepius, which has only a single snake and no wings.'

So it is no more unethical than you using the guy from Quantum Leap as your avatar. It is a common misconception, but every day is a school day.

For the record, I do have some medical training, but no, I don't do any consulting work in the medical field, other than some curriculum writing and editing a book on highly pathogenic avian influenza.

Re: freelance fapiao

Caduceus wrote:
I think you mean the Rod of Asclepius.

From Wikipedia- 'By extension of its association with Mercury/Hermes, the caduceus is also a recognized symbol of commerce and negotiation, two realms in which balanced exchange and reciprocity are recognized as ideals. This association is ancient, and consistent from the Classical period to modern times. The caduceus is also used as a symbol representing printing, again by extension of the attributes of Mercury (in this case associated with writing and eloquence).

The caduceus is sometimes mistakenly used as a symbol of medicine and/or medical practice, especially in North America, because of widespread confusion with the traditional medical symbol, the rod of Asclepius, which has only a single snake and no wings.'

So it is no more unethical than you using the guy from Quantum Leap as your avatar. It is a common misconception, but every day is a school day.

For the record, I do have some medical training, but no, I don't do any consulting work in the medical field, other than some curriculum writing and editing a book on highly pathogenic avian influenza.

I am not using my avatar to earn money. It is just a representation of my online persona. The Caduceus is a world wide symbol of medicine and what is accepted by people. You are defrauding people by using a false representation of yourself. CHANGE IT!

美国鬼子

Re: freelance fapiao

zhenlai wrote:
Caduceus wrote:
I think you mean the Rod of Asclepius.

From Wikipedia- 'By extension of its association with Mercury/Hermes, the caduceus is also a recognized symbol of commerce and negotiation, two realms in which balanced exchange and reciprocity are recognized as ideals. This association is ancient, and consistent from the Classical period to modern times. The caduceus is also used as a symbol representing printing, again by extension of the attributes of Mercury (in this case associated with writing and eloquence).

The caduceus is sometimes mistakenly used as a symbol of medicine and/or medical practice, especially in North America, because of widespread confusion with the traditional medical symbol, the rod of Asclepius, which has only a single snake and no wings.'

So it is no more unethical than you using the guy from Quantum Leap as your avatar. It is a common misconception, but every day is a school day.

For the record, I do have some medical training, but no, I don't do any consulting work in the medical field, other than some curriculum writing and editing a book on highly pathogenic avian influenza.

I am not using my avatar to earn money. It is just a representation of my online persona. The Caduceus is a world wide symbol of medicine and what is accepted by people. You are defrauding people by using a false representation of yourself. CHANGE IT!

Of course he won't change it.

I mean, the guy is here with his whole family trolling and trying to sucker the OP out of a few RMB and you're talking to him about ethics and doing what is right? You've got a better change of convincing Rush Limbaugh to grow more brain cells.

"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???

Re: freelance fapiao

Wow, you really have no life! As you may not have bothered to read the text that you so lovingly quoted. It is not a symbol of medicine, but in fact a representation of printing, writing, negotiation and commerce. It also has something to do with my personal beliefs, which are my right to express. I also fail to see how a literary consultancy could be construed as having any thing to do with the medical field. Nor can I fathom how it is any business of yours.

It is MISTAKENLY used in the United States as a medical symbol simply because some patch designer for the army was apparently about as well educated as yourself, and made a mistake many moons ago. For thousands of years it has had the meaning I quoted. As most of my clients are reasonably well educated, I have never had an issue with it. I have also never implied that it has anything to do with medicine, it is simply your ignorance that makes it seems so.

There exists in this wide world a winemaker, a marketing firm and a software company that are all called caduceus. In your arrogant ignorance would you also demand that they change their symbols to suit your silliness and internet tough guy syndrome?

I have run a honest and successful business for several years now. I have done neither of you any harm , yet you make demands of me and show contempt and hostility. Your immaturity and lack of reasonable behavior mean that no matter how often or thoroughly you are wrong, you will never change; meaning that you will never have any joy in your life nor any real wisdom in your atrophied minds. I have never defrauded anyone in my life. I have many happy clients and do not seek or require your approval. An adult need not demean himself by giving in to petulant children. I actually feel sorry for you both. A little.

Re: freelance fapiao

Whoa now! You guys are crazy! I've done some work for this guy and he is legit. You two are just pissed because he proved you both wrong. And from what i read his wife never said anything about charging anything and even if they did, so what? i'd pay fifty kuai to avoid dealing with a Chinese government office. Who gives a sh*t? they genuinely like to help people and he's a stand up guy and so is she. well, a stand up girl. when i was still teaching, i had a school try to rip me off and mess up my visa for my new job, she got on the phone and 20 minutes later the school called me and asked politely when i could pick up my money.thats how i met him. Amber is awesome. A few hundred kuai to get back 12 thousand ain't bad.

Jesus, you guys piss me off! What;s the point of it all? and don't talk sh*t about people's family thats just f-ed up. Who the f*** do you think you are? What the f*** do you care if he uses a caduceus or a giant green leprechaun? is it a sin if he's not irish? You guys are ridiculous

“A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

Re: freelance fapiao

ulyssesdreaming wrote:
Whoa now! You guys are crazy! I've done some work for this guy and he is legit. You two are just pissed because he proved you both wrong. And from what i read his wife never said anything about charging anything and even if they did, so what? i'd pay fifty kuai to avoid dealing with a Chinese government office. Who gives a sh*t? they genuinely like to help people and he's a stand up guy and so is she. well, a stand up girl. when i was still teaching, i had a school try to rip me off and mess up my visa for my new job, she got on the phone and 20 minutes later the school called me and asked politely when i could pick up my money.thats how i met him. Amber is awesome. A few hundred kuai to get back 12 thousand ain't bad.

Jesus, you guys piss me off! What;s the point of it all? and don't talk sh*t about people's family thats just f-ed up. Who the f*** do you think you are? What the f*** do you care if he uses a caduceus or a giant green leprechaun? is it a sin if he's not irish? You guys are ridiculous

Great, now we have a whole brigade of trolls and an ass-puppet extraordinaire who would do well to take seriously his / her / its Literacy Volunteer.

If your business is that bad that you have to troll the forums looking for suckers to give you a couple of hundred kuai for what you can easily do yourself -- much like the other visa / legal trolls that have permeated the forum -- why not just pay for an ad or something?

And yes, retard, it really is easy to get the tax bureau to give you a fa piao and, no, they do not keep a copy of your ID in the process.

"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???

Re: freelance fapiao

Ass puppet extraordinaire?
gd, I had no idea you where a poet.

“A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions.” - Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.

Re: freelance fapiao

I really don't understand why you find it necessary to resort to name calling such as this. Seriously? Retard? Are you gonna try to take my lunch money at morning recess now?

I also don't know why you find it so incomprehensible that someone can make strong contacts by actually being nice to others in the business. Has it never occurred to you that doing small favors for people helps build a potential client or employee? I also cannot fathom why you are ignoring the fact the we never asked for payment.

I know how hard it can be to get started in this business and enjoy talking to and helping others, its called professional courtesy. Courtesy, being a word that you are apparently unfamiliar with, means not 'being a d***', in your parlance.

Why compete with everyone when you can work together? Why be an a-hole when you can be nice? Why have access to a website such as this and not take a look at what potential clients may be needing? Why not use it for what it's for, to connect with others?

I will also make a concession or confession, if you prefer. I mentioned the i.d. copy without consulting my wife, because I was (rightfully) a bit rankled at you suggesting my wife is a fraud. I spoke out of turn and was wrong. It appears that they seldom, if ever, actually expect you to produce the i.d.I asked her and she agreed with you. I was simply speaking from my own experiences with Chinese bureaucracies. They are unpredictable and shift policy with the wind.

It is however, still technically against the law for a foreigner to do freelance work without the proper visa and certification or a registered company. But none of this really matters.

Sorry yam, my wife was only trying to help. You are still free to contact me with more info if you might be available for some freelance work in the future. That is of course, if these two haven't put you off. We will continue to do business our way, which has been considered honest and reliable for over 10 years now.

And ulysses, thanks for the ass puppetry buddy , but don't waste your time.

Re: freelance fapiao

^

Even if you have a work-related residence permit, you are not allowed to work for any entity but for the employer listed on your work permit unless expressly approved by that employer.

So then why would the tax authorities even allow an expat to obtain a fa piao for personal services? The reason is because they simply don't care about anything except the tax revenue and they do not communicate with immigration authorities.

"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???

Re: freelance fapiao

gdbill wrote:
^

The reason is because they simply don't care about anything except the tax revenue and they do not communicate with immigration authorities.

On that, at least, we can agree.

It's time to leave the office. Goodnight Jonboy.

Re: freelance fapiao

^

Goodnight, Doc.

"Truth is not a commodity in short supply: The problem is, there's very little demand for it." -- ???

Re: freelance fapiao

i prefer the ladies in front of the subway exit at haidian saying "fapiao fapiao..."

Re: freelance fapiao

To OP, you can check out www.sinoinvoicing.com , they will sign a contract on your behalf with your customer and issue the fapiao on your behalf. There will be a percentage taken as fee though

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