I understand why you want to dodge the question of how much you want to make the increase for each stop-of course it makes your argument so much more difficult to sustain that it already is.
I don't know what you are talking about lack of responses. You throw ten buckets of mixed paint agaist a wall, and then you ask, which do you like. There is no answer to that mess. Your latest incarnation of rounded off to the nearest yuan hodge podge of words with no continuing theme is another of these paint messes. While you are spilling paint everywhere you seem to have thrown logic completely out the window. Britomart didn't lump your posts in with anything, she asked you a simple question. You answered with Jackson Pollack imitations.
Efficiency of words, I think you should practice that art instead.
Still, with the lack of responses. Comical. And yes, I recall what you told me. But it's too one-sided.
And I told you my concern is for others as well, for the ¥18bil worth of subsidies can be put to use for other public goods such as public education or health. You sure are prejucided against other public goods with your lion's share of love behind this particular public good overs so many others. (Stations traveled x distance-based rate) + base fare. It's not rocket science. For those who purchase a single-journey ticket, their total is rounded up to the nearest yuan (this allows the current machines to remain to be used). The single-ticket is still credited with say ¥5, so in the event the visitor read the map wrong or changed their mind on their route, they're still entitled to the full ¥5. If they get off an the station that takes let's say ¥4.4 to get to, then operations keeps the remaining ¥.60. If someone is not using an IC card, they're either a tourist to this city and the city tries to make money off of them wherever they can (see: Airport Express, ¥25), or they're an infrequent user of the subway and thus they will either forego losing their ¥.60 by instead using their normal mode of transport, or they will decide it's still a good enough bargain overall and proceed with single-journey ticket purchase, or they will buy an IC card. For the regular riders, they use IC cards which do take into account fractions of a yuan -- just like buses -- and there is no change to them or the IC cards or the machines, etc. It would be silly of me to proffer an actual distance-based rate since I don't know the particulars of the operating budget shortfalls.
@ Britomart: you're either passionately misread or being cheeky. Trying to lump my posts into the same realm as Squid's is asinine.
@ Squid: I will answer your question when you answer my questionS (note: plural). So go ahead, answer my questions.
But actually, you don't need to. You want to try and compare BJ to Delhi subway (with a total of 6 lines...hardly a good comparison) so badly. You have shot yourself in the foot countless times with your ill informed rants, and you are at it again. Delhi Metro charges (you need to sit down for this) distance-based fare! If they're indeed not taking subsidies (I don't care to look it up because you have nailed your own coffin), you can credit the Delhi geniuses who decided to charge distance-based fare because guess what, this formula works for an overwhelming majority of cities around the world! You really crack me up with your supposed analogies which only hurt your argument -- which is nothing more than an illogical tirade. You fail to acknowledge much and are increasingly making desperate, emotional pleas to passers-by. It's over, it's done with.
And I'm sorry yet another article mentions Beijing's ultra-cheap flat fare is due to an ungodly subsidy sum. From the looks of your posts, you're attempting to direct your anger in my direction. If that is what makes you feel better. keep it comin'. If something like ¥7 (what Shanghai Metro charges a rider to ride the entire length of Line 1 -- that is 28 stations!) is too much for your to shoulder, if you think it's too grossly unfair, then you probably have a lot of anger built up inside. Or you should go move to Delhi where the CNY will work in your favor.
14. Unleash China's foreign cash reserves to simultaneously bribe top fashion designers such as Armani, Hermes, Louis Vuitton and Versace into making gas masks this year's must-have fashion accessory
Yes, I am quite aware of this. But apparently mtnerror thinks this is patently unfair, because that means that a person who only goes one stop has to pay as much as someone who goes perhaps three or four stops. He hates this. He despises this. This to him is the height of gross injustice.
He feels this is not making people pay for what they use. I think if he had his way you would pay for every minute or fration thereof that you in are inside the station-because he believes there is a cost involved for this.
For you information, the subway system in Delhi India is one of only an estimated FIVE subway systems in the entire world that operate with a profit, with no subsidies. You know how much they charge?
The cheapest fare is less than one yuan, the highest fare is about 2.7 yuan. Forget not getting subsidies, they are actually makng a profit.
Since Beijing subways operate at beyond capacity, its likely that the problem isn't too low of fares, but rather poor management and cost controls. And perhaps not very good book keeping.
Most subway lines don't charge per station. They divide the city into zones, usually small ones downtown but larger tracts as you go towards the suburbs. This can potentially make it so the truly distant are not unduly punished with super-high fares.
13. Retrain legions of underemployed migrant workers to serve in the newly-created occupation of "Air-Yi", a personal assistant to pre-breathe air for the upper classes
12. Utilize China's fantastic manufacturing acumen to produce one hermetically sealed Plastic Living Enviroment for each hukou holder, ala The Boy in the Plastic Bubble
11. The Great Breathe Forward. Start a mass campaign for collecting PM2.5 particles in jars. Whoever fills the most jars with air is a hero of the people.
The admin's link (above) is going to open your eyes a bit further on subsidies (as well as mention another source which backs up my assertion of current fare price being possibly only due to a large amount of subsidies). As I posted in response to the above article, ¥7 to ride Shanghai Metro's entire Line 1 (28 stations) seems extremely reasonable and if you and your Tongzhou brethren can't handle such, then time to find in employment in Tongzhou rather than getting well underpaid in the city. I am hoping the era of "cheapskating" for BJ Subway will soon reach its inevitable end -- and for the public's sake, the sooner the better!!
In news that is shocking to no one, today's average subway ride costs WAY more than ¥2 and things are going to change! Those subsidy monies are not sustainable in the long-term, on top of the tremendous costs the building of new lines and expansion of current ones are bringing to the operating budget. Time for the longhaulers to start paying their "fare" share. Distance-based fare is practiced in countless other cities in this country, not only HK. And don't let the article's HK MTR price quote scare you folks: Shanghai Metro's entire Line 1 journey (28 stations in total) costs only ¥7. Charging special rates during rush hour seems to only penalize those who are working and getting to school; people have to arrive at work and school at that which is handed out to them. Charging based upon distance is the most fair way to go!
Indeed indeed, Lynkx. One shouldn't discuss public policy which affects potentially millions of people lives and which helps to address one of the world's largest cities most pressing urban problem.
Instead one should lurk around at an internet cafe telling people to get a life. Well played life Guru! Or rather Lifegurulifeguru.
Re: Beijing Subway Fare Increase Proposals: Let Us Count the...
mtnerror,
I understand why you want to dodge the question of how much you want to make the increase for each stop-of course it makes your argument so much more difficult to sustain that it already is.
I don't know what you are talking about lack of responses. You throw ten buckets of mixed paint agaist a wall, and then you ask, which do you like. There is no answer to that mess. Your latest incarnation of rounded off to the nearest yuan hodge podge of words with no continuing theme is another of these paint messes. While you are spilling paint everywhere you seem to have thrown logic completely out the window. Britomart didn't lump your posts in with anything, she asked you a simple question. You answered with Jackson Pollack imitations.
Efficiency of words, I think you should practice that art instead.
Re: Beijing Subway Fare Increase Proposals: Let Us Count the...
Still, with the lack of responses. Comical. And yes, I recall what you told me. But it's too one-sided.
And I told you my concern is for others as well, for the ¥18bil worth of subsidies can be put to use for other public goods such as public education or health. You sure are prejucided against other public goods with your lion's share of love behind this particular public good overs so many others. (Stations traveled x distance-based rate) + base fare. It's not rocket science. For those who purchase a single-journey ticket, their total is rounded up to the nearest yuan (this allows the current machines to remain to be used). The single-ticket is still credited with say ¥5, so in the event the visitor read the map wrong or changed their mind on their route, they're still entitled to the full ¥5. If they get off an the station that takes let's say ¥4.4 to get to, then operations keeps the remaining ¥.60. If someone is not using an IC card, they're either a tourist to this city and the city tries to make money off of them wherever they can (see: Airport Express, ¥25), or they're an infrequent user of the subway and thus they will either forego losing their ¥.60 by instead using their normal mode of transport, or they will decide it's still a good enough bargain overall and proceed with single-journey ticket purchase, or they will buy an IC card. For the regular riders, they use IC cards which do take into account fractions of a yuan -- just like buses -- and there is no change to them or the IC cards or the machines, etc. It would be silly of me to proffer an actual distance-based rate since I don't know the particulars of the operating budget shortfalls.
@ Britomart: you're either passionately misread or being cheeky. Trying to lump my posts into the same realm as Squid's is asinine.
Re: Beijing Subway Fare Increase Proposals: Let Us Count the...
I'm just curious... Have either of you ever taken part in debate teams when in high school?
Re: Beijing Subway Fare Increase Proposals: Let Us Count the...
I told you I drive. My concern is for others, perhaps a novel concept to you. How much increase do you want for each stop?
Re: Beijing Subway Fare Increase Proposals: Let Us Count the...
@ Squid: I will answer your question when you answer my questionS (note: plural). So go ahead, answer my questions.
But actually, you don't need to. You want to try and compare BJ to Delhi subway (with a total of 6 lines...hardly a good comparison) so badly. You have shot yourself in the foot countless times with your ill informed rants, and you are at it again. Delhi Metro charges (you need to sit down for this) distance-based fare! If they're indeed not taking subsidies (I don't care to look it up because you have nailed your own coffin), you can credit the Delhi geniuses who decided to charge distance-based fare because guess what, this formula works for an overwhelming majority of cities around the world! You really crack me up with your supposed analogies which only hurt your argument -- which is nothing more than an illogical tirade. You fail to acknowledge much and are increasingly making desperate, emotional pleas to passers-by. It's over, it's done with.
And I'm sorry yet another article mentions Beijing's ultra-cheap flat fare is due to an ungodly subsidy sum. From the looks of your posts, you're attempting to direct your anger in my direction. If that is what makes you feel better. keep it comin'. If something like ¥7 (what Shanghai Metro charges a rider to ride the entire length of Line 1 -- that is 28 stations!) is too much for your to shoulder, if you think it's too grossly unfair, then you probably have a lot of anger built up inside. Or you should go move to Delhi where the CNY will work in your favor.
Re: 10 Great Ways to Solve Beijing's Pesky Air Pollution Problem
14. Unleash China's foreign cash reserves to simultaneously bribe top fashion designers such as Armani, Hermes, Louis Vuitton and Versace into making gas masks this year's must-have fashion accessory
Re: Beijing Subway Fare Increase Proposals: Let Us Count the...
Yes, I am quite aware of this. But apparently mtnerror thinks this is patently unfair, because that means that a person who only goes one stop has to pay as much as someone who goes perhaps three or four stops. He hates this. He despises this. This to him is the height of gross injustice.
He feels this is not making people pay for what they use. I think if he had his way you would pay for every minute or fration thereof that you in are inside the station-because he believes there is a cost involved for this.
Re: Beijing Subway Fare Increase Proposals: Let Us Count the...
For you information, the subway system in Delhi India is one of only an estimated FIVE subway systems in the entire world that operate with a profit, with no subsidies. You know how much they charge?
The cheapest fare is less than one yuan, the highest fare is about 2.7 yuan. Forget not getting subsidies, they are actually makng a profit.
Since Beijing subways operate at beyond capacity, its likely that the problem isn't too low of fares, but rather poor management and cost controls. And perhaps not very good book keeping.
Re: Beijing Subway Fare Increase Proposals: Let Us Count the...
Most subway lines don't charge per station. They divide the city into zones, usually small ones downtown but larger tracts as you go towards the suburbs. This can potentially make it so the truly distant are not unduly punished with super-high fares.
Re: 10 Great Ways to Solve Beijing's Pesky Air Pollution Problem
13. Retrain legions of underemployed migrant workers to serve in the newly-created occupation of "Air-Yi", a personal assistant to pre-breathe air for the upper classes
Re: Beijing Subway Fare Increase Proposals: Let Us Count the...
I asked you, how much should the cost go up for every station one gets off on?
Re: 10 Great Ways to Solve Beijing's Pesky Air Pollution Problem
12. Utilize China's fantastic manufacturing acumen to produce one hermetically sealed Plastic Living Enviroment for each hukou holder, ala The Boy in the Plastic Bubble
Re: 10 Great Ways to Solve Beijing's Pesky Air Pollution Problem
11. The Great Breathe Forward. Start a mass campaign for collecting PM2.5 particles in jars. Whoever fills the most jars with air is a hero of the people.
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
@ Squid:
The admin's link (above) is going to open your eyes a bit further on subsidies (as well as mention another source which backs up my assertion of current fare price being possibly only due to a large amount of subsidies). As I posted in response to the above article, ¥7 to ride Shanghai Metro's entire Line 1 (28 stations) seems extremely reasonable and if you and your Tongzhou brethren can't handle such, then time to find in employment in Tongzhou rather than getting well underpaid in the city. I am hoping the era of "cheapskating" for BJ Subway will soon reach its inevitable end -- and for the public's sake, the sooner the better!!
Re: Beijing Subway Fare Increase Proposals: Let Us Count the...
In news that is shocking to no one, today's average subway ride costs WAY more than ¥2 and things are going to change! Those subsidy monies are not sustainable in the long-term, on top of the tremendous costs the building of new lines and expansion of current ones are bringing to the operating budget. Time for the longhaulers to start paying their "fare" share. Distance-based fare is practiced in countless other cities in this country, not only HK. And don't let the article's HK MTR price quote scare you folks: Shanghai Metro's entire Line 1 journey (28 stations in total) costs only ¥7. Charging special rates during rush hour seems to only penalize those who are working and getting to school; people have to arrive at work and school at that which is handed out to them. Charging based upon distance is the most fair way to go!
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
Beijing Subway Fare Increase Proposals: Let Us Count the Ways
http://www.thebeijinger.com/blog/2013/12/19/beijing-subway-fare-increase-proposals-let-us-count-ways
Five Proposals
All that's sure is it's going up someway, somehow
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
@ Lynx: if readers decide to have a discussion, why are you letting it get you upset? No one is forcing you to read stories on TBJ or related posts.
@ Squid: Where did you get the idea my proposal was an additional ¥1 per station?
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
You are cute, squid.
The office of Urban Development here
certainly should be more than happy to
listen and even follow all the advices,
maybe they even hand over a medal.
And a certificate. And a keyboared for all
the typing.
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
Indeed indeed, Lynkx. One shouldn't discuss public policy which affects potentially millions of people lives and which helps to address one of the world's largest cities most pressing urban problem.
Instead one should lurk around at an internet cafe telling people to get a life. Well played life Guru! Or rather Lifegurulifeguru.
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
Can't you two just get a life?