Personally, I think the 2 RMB is a great deal and it encourages people to use public transportation which I thought Beijing wanted in order to reduce the amount of vehicular pollutions.
To increase the fares from one side to the other. will have a slight increase for those who only use the subway for one or two stops, say these people purchase bikes. This only makes roads more congested as cars slow down with the increase of bike traffic.
I really do not have a unique solution other then build more lines and purchase more trains to shorten the waiting times ( if not already at a maximum).
What I really think of this is a method for many things. A Increase fund for the train lines. Second, People will purchase more of the vacant lots in inner Beijing. Third, this one is a little rough but I think plausible, People will purchase more cars to support the Chinese Suburbian lifestyle.
A Commuting lifestyle is not for all. I think once you learn to accept it I think it is a great way to get around Beijing and what really makes it notable is again the 2RMB per ride. Cheaper than gas and more efficent then driving in beijing.
I'm hurt? Why are emotions all of a sudden pouring thru? Stay on topic, dear Squid. Read again. And stop skirting the question: supposing operational costs are increasing (perhaps due to collecting only ¥2 to pick up you and your dear brethren in Tongzhou), how would you like for that to be dealt with? There are only a couple of options which I have already outlined, and I'm looking forward to your answer.
Did you see me mention planes in my previous post? No, I did not, so get to it (the point still remains, however, in that planes charge distance-based fare).
The HK Tramway goes to a limited number of stops and operates on a small route of the island. Unless people live in a certain area, it's useless. Yes, grannies might use it to pick up their vegetables, and office workers to grab a lunch. I am not saying it's ONLY used by tourists, but I am saying its flat fee can't be used to compare with the MTR, nor bus service. The bus service which you and your brethren would use (because you would undoubtedly live in NT) is...get ready for it, distance-based!
I told you where i was getting the subsidy that is provided for each and every time you take the subway from Tongzhou, each and every time i pass your train on its way to Tongzhou. Yes, I'm well aware of Beijing's migrant population -- what made you think I was living under a rock? (Two of Beijing's issues are transporation and air quality, but to call them the biggest because perhaps that is what is most impactful to your life is a stretch. Public health, education, worker's rights, water sourcing and treatment, health costs...all of these could be argued to be on more Beijiner minds.)
Your refusal to believe that riders don't shoulder 100% of the costs doesn't mean it's so. You have to remember all of the associated costs with operating a subway...depot and inventory costs, repairmen, continuous cleaning of the train cars and stations, testing and monitoring and equipment of the lines and signals, ticket sales, ticket machines and their upkeep, signage, secruity personnel, training, energy (to run the trains, avoid the cars and stations from being pitch black, heat in winter and a/c in summer), drivers and platform staff, etc. If any one or several of these and their associated costs increase, WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE TO GET THE MONEY FROM? INCREASED SUBSIDIES, BASE FARE RATE HIKE, OR DISTANCE-BASED FARE?
You made a bunch of silly analogies, and you seem to be hurt that someone called you out on them. Comparing a plane ride to different cities to a subway ride is just plain stupid, sorry. You also make silly claims when you say that the Hong Kong trams are mostly used for tourists. Are you sure you have been to Wanchai? The trams are used by office workers and old ladies going to the market. And where are you getting this 30% subsidy needed to keep the subways operational?
In India they managed to make their subways "profitable" on the very first day of operation, by using the land nearby for rentals and advertising.
Finally, of course other cities charge based on distance, cities like Chicago and Osaka, and even Shanghai. But does that mean this is the best formula for Beijing just because that is what these other cities are doing? It certainly doesn't. Beijing has a bad traffic problem, one of the worst in the world. It also has some of the worst air. Combine those two and you have a mess. So yes, a rational person can have an opinion about what the priority for a subway system should be-don't you know they are asking for public comments? If making money should be the first priority, then go ahead, sock it to the poor suckers who can't aford to live in CBD. I will quite rightly assume that those who live outside the city do so for the less expensive housing costs. Did you know Beijing has a fair number of migrant workers, has anyone ever mentioned that to you?
The Beijing government generates plenty of money in a whole host of industries. But Beijing's biggest challenge is transportation and air quality, that is pretty obvious, even to a simple forum poster. The subway doesn't neccessarily need to be another one of those avenues for more revenue.
Wow, this was a short pick-up and it generated this many comments. I'll accept the map may be slightly out of date, but how the hell did you notice?
Anyway, I'm glad this was informative and thought-provoking. The subway is a great way to travel and anything that improves it is a bonus for Beijing residents.
There is also Ostara, "the goddess of the moon, fertility, and spring in Anglo–Saxon myth, was often depicted with a hare’s head or ears, and with a white hare standing in attendance. This magical white hare laid brightly colored eggs which were given out to children during spring fertility festivals — an ancient tradition that survives in the form of the Easter Bunny today."
BTW Steven The Little Mermaid's Father Poseidon is also a mythological creature. What a silly name for a submarine, eh?
I can only imagine the staffing needs for such a new procees, which would need to be dealt with 12x/yr multiplied by the number of millions of riders in scope -- you have to remember not much is handled thru the mail here. No matter distance-based fare or extra charge during rush hour, both could be handled the same way current IC cards are swiped. And it would never be a good idea to charge extra during rush hour for those who take mass transit for work/school.
charging more during the time adults are trying to get to their jobs and students to their schools is taking a huge whack at a heck of a lot of people in society who already fave quite a few pressures. In short, they are your tax base and future tax base: do not piss them off by having a rush hour fare.
Perhaps this could be overcome by offering a monthly commuter card that can be purchased at a discount.
Squid, Yes, I have ridden public transport in both cities which you mentioned, and therefore am calling you out. One can't compare HK MTR with HK Tramways. The former is largely used by locals to get around the city, the latter largely by tourists. It would be the same in SF with the trolley and BART. Two completely different modes of transport for two completely different types of travelers. In that light, my comparison of BJ Subway rate formulation and other modes of transportion still seems to hold water. MTR uses distance-based fare. China Railways uses distance-based fare. Certain bus lines within the metro use distance-based fares (that's why you'll notice a meter next to the exit door). Our taxis too.
In city after city, country after country, passengers pay distance-based fare. Nanjing, Dalian, Shanghai, Osaka, Chicago...the list goes on and on -- for underground transport, light-rail, tolls, phone connections, etc. Do not assume people live in the BJ 'burbs because they can't afford it -- people live all over this city for a variety of reasons. Proximity to work, liking of a particular school, apartment design, natuarl scenary, shopping or store brand, proximity to major thoroughfares, availability of farmland, rental price, etc.
The part about subsidies can't be denied. You can check Wiki and the corresponding article (in Chinese) which supports the statement I made, in that the current fare is possible due to subsidies. I would argue a roughly 33% subsidy is considerable (i.e., if it stopped tomorrow, BJ Subway operations would shortly cease if rider-paid fare was not immediately increased). As far as the actual building of the lines, of course the people's money is used for that, too -- but they are not just up-front subsidies, my friend. Few municipal gov'ts would NOT be contributing taxpayer monies to such projects. There are one-time subsidies and ongoing subsidies, the same when gov'ts go to build roads, water mains, and the like. Also, it's not for me to say what are MTR's and BJ Subway's priorities, respectively. You are suggesting if BJ adopted the same pricing scheme used in other cities on the Mainlaind with similar cost of living and overheard figures, the operation would either be a "profit center" or no one from beyond X Ring Road would be able to come to the city, neither of which I am buying.
If the 2 operators of BJ Subway are coming to the municipal gov't and stating the current structure to continue their operating budget is unsustainable, the additional costs must shouldered by someone -- either riders or increase of subsidies. If not shouldered by the riders, which public programs would you like to take monies from to neutralize the deficit? And who are you to judge whether the current system is working just fine or not? Do you know the operating budgets and forecasted budgets and costs of our city's 2 lovely subway operators?
Furthermore, I would add that changing to a distance fee is only going to hurt those most who can least afford it. The people who live and need to travel further away from the city center, do so because in general they can not afford to live in the more expensive central areas of the city. If you have to travel to tongzhou, you probably live there because you can not afford to live in Guomao.
And making the subway more expensive now, when Beijing is alreay in a traffic congestion mess sounds like just complete foolishness. This is pretty obvious-and with the system working fine the way it is now, why try to break it by fixing it?
Sorry, but I don't buy your analogies about planes and bus fares. Planes only stop at one place, its not like you can hop on and hop off anywhere along the way. Have you ever ridden street trams in cities like San Francisco or Hong Kong? You jump on and and get off anywhere you want, for one price. No one is subsidizing others riders, they simply charge a fee which allows them enough revenue to run the service-same for the subway.
I also don't agree with you that the subway is highly subsidized by tax dollars. The government pays for the intial construction of the subways-because they are aware of the benefits to the city, in terms of less pollution, less traffic, less wear on the infrastructure. But in a city like Beijing, where there is plenty of population using the trains, they can become self sustaning very quickly, and there is no need for public subsidies. Furthermore, it is certainly a much better model to keep the cost of the subway as low as possible for a city in such dire need as Beijing, rather that use a model like Hong Kongs which uses its MTR system as a profit center. Hong Kong people for the most part live a higher standard of living, and thus can more afford to use the transport, but Beijing's priority is not to make more money from the subways, its to relieve the road burden.
The bottom line is, if they go to a distance scale, it is going to cost more money for everyone, you can guarantee that. Do you really think they are going to charge less than two yuan for most distances? No chance.
OK, 4 days have passed since this story was posted, and still no update as to "two well-known Sanlitun eateries that we'll leave unnamed pending confirmation." Enough time should have passed for sources to be confirmed and readers informed.
@admin: What would make it hairy? It was done before in this city, then reneged but not because of complicated fare scheduling. It can once again be done here and is being done in a straightforward manner in countless other cities. If other modes of transit are also adjusted during peak hours, then OK. But if not, then it's antithetical to charge more for using mass transit at precisely the hours for which the infrastracture was built in mind for. The intervals at which the trains operate during peak hours could be shortened, but charging more during the time adults are trying to get to their jobs and students to their schools is taking a huge whack at a heck of a lot of people in society who already fave quite a few pressures. In short, they are your tax base and future tax base: do not piss them off by having a rush hour fare. Distance-based fare is hard to argue against.
On another note, it would be great if there could be a once-and-for-all decision by the two subway operators to agree to signage standards. One operator lists the next station with the direction arrow of the train, the other the terminus. It's a complicated mess for those who encounter a particular line for the first few times, or visitors in general. Also, signage and arrows could be more widespread and improved overall at ton of stations, escalators fixed (to have anything at Guomao in the heart of the CBD be out for so long is incomprehensible) and improved walkway and tunnel flow.
though i can see it being hairy from a technological point of view, why not charge more from 7am-9am and 5pm-7pm, like make it 4 kuai and less on the off hours?
Actually I find the subway bearable most of the other times of the day, and a moderate hike might be enough to alter behavior
What I have proposed is in line with other modes of transportation and is in line with "pay for what you use". If I want to take the tollway, I pay based on type of vehicle and distance -- it is not a flat fee. Same goes for taxis and some bus lines, train tickets and generally, planes. The train ticket price is not the same for BJ-Nanjing as BJ-Shanghai, nor should it be. Subways have to go to a certain terminus, in which there is an apparatus for which the cars can be used to go the opposite direction, so no matter there are riders going to the terminus or not, it's a required destination for the subway cars. If I'm only using the infrascture for 2 stops, why should someone using it for 13 stops get to pay the same?
Not all bus lines charge the same fare nor a flat fee (as noted in my original comments) so when you state "buses charge one fare," that's not accurate. Short distance subway rides will likely drop in price instead of today's flate fare, so stating a change in how fares are calculated resulting in it being more expensive for the rider is likely inaccurate.
To answer your question of who benefits, we all do. Right now subway operations are heavily subsidized. Indeed, part of our taxes go towards all forms of public transit, even if you don't use it. This will and should continue, but not all fare increases should be paid for by subsidies -- at some point in time, I need to get the user of the infrastructure to pitch in more, too. If more of your taxes are devoted to subways and public transit at large, it means less is available for other things (education, public health, etc.).
In general, I'm in favor of the majority of the cost being shouldered by the receipient of the good or service. I would not rest the counter-argument on a possibly confusing ticketing process, as mostly locals use the subway and it will only take a small time for them to get used to the new pricing schemes (and most are using IC cards so there won't be any added confusion, anyways...after scanning the card at the destinations turnstyle, the meter would deduct the corresponding amount). For visitors and tourists, they will see the same ticketing scheme as countless other cities around the world use -- if our visitors in SH and Chicago and Paris can figure it out, so can those who visit BJ. Pick the destination, tap the screen to confirm, and the fare will be determined by the machine without added hassle to the traveler. If you happen to change your schedule/mind and need to go to a subway station further away, then pay the difference upon arrival of your new final destination. The turnstyles are already manned so no new costs associated there. Sure, lines may result in this but what % of those who exit at that particular moment are going to need to need fare adjustment?
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
Personally, I think the 2 RMB is a great deal and it encourages people to use public transportation which I thought Beijing wanted in order to reduce the amount of vehicular pollutions.
To increase the fares from one side to the other. will have a slight increase for those who only use the subway for one or two stops, say these people purchase bikes. This only makes roads more congested as cars slow down with the increase of bike traffic.
I really do not have a unique solution other then build more lines and purchase more trains to shorten the waiting times ( if not already at a maximum).
What I really think of this is a method for many things. A Increase fund for the train lines. Second, People will purchase more of the vacant lots in inner Beijing. Third, this one is a little rough but I think plausible, People will purchase more cars to support the Chinese Suburbian lifestyle.
A Commuting lifestyle is not for all. I think once you learn to accept it I think it is a great way to get around Beijing and what really makes it notable is again the 2RMB per ride. Cheaper than gas and more efficent then driving in beijing.
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
I'm hurt? Why are emotions all of a sudden pouring thru? Stay on topic, dear Squid. Read again. And stop skirting the question: supposing operational costs are increasing (perhaps due to collecting only ¥2 to pick up you and your dear brethren in Tongzhou), how would you like for that to be dealt with? There are only a couple of options which I have already outlined, and I'm looking forward to your answer.
Did you see me mention planes in my previous post? No, I did not, so get to it (the point still remains, however, in that planes charge distance-based fare).
The HK Tramway goes to a limited number of stops and operates on a small route of the island. Unless people live in a certain area, it's useless. Yes, grannies might use it to pick up their vegetables, and office workers to grab a lunch. I am not saying it's ONLY used by tourists, but I am saying its flat fee can't be used to compare with the MTR, nor bus service. The bus service which you and your brethren would use (because you would undoubtedly live in NT) is...get ready for it, distance-based!
I told you where i was getting the subsidy that is provided for each and every time you take the subway from Tongzhou, each and every time i pass your train on its way to Tongzhou. Yes, I'm well aware of Beijing's migrant population -- what made you think I was living under a rock? (Two of Beijing's issues are transporation and air quality, but to call them the biggest because perhaps that is what is most impactful to your life is a stretch. Public health, education, worker's rights, water sourcing and treatment, health costs...all of these could be argued to be on more Beijiner minds.)
Your refusal to believe that riders don't shoulder 100% of the costs doesn't mean it's so. You have to remember all of the associated costs with operating a subway...depot and inventory costs, repairmen, continuous cleaning of the train cars and stations, testing and monitoring and equipment of the lines and signals, ticket sales, ticket machines and their upkeep, signage, secruity personnel, training, energy (to run the trains, avoid the cars and stations from being pitch black, heat in winter and a/c in summer), drivers and platform staff, etc. If any one or several of these and their associated costs increase, WHERE WOULD YOU LIKE TO GET THE MONEY FROM? INCREASED SUBSIDIES, BASE FARE RATE HIKE, OR DISTANCE-BASED FARE?
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
mtnerror,
You made a bunch of silly analogies, and you seem to be hurt that someone called you out on them. Comparing a plane ride to different cities to a subway ride is just plain stupid, sorry. You also make silly claims when you say that the Hong Kong trams are mostly used for tourists. Are you sure you have been to Wanchai? The trams are used by office workers and old ladies going to the market. And where are you getting this 30% subsidy needed to keep the subways operational?
In India they managed to make their subways "profitable" on the very first day of operation, by using the land nearby for rentals and advertising.
Finally, of course other cities charge based on distance, cities like Chicago and Osaka, and even Shanghai. But does that mean this is the best formula for Beijing just because that is what these other cities are doing? It certainly doesn't. Beijing has a bad traffic problem, one of the worst in the world. It also has some of the worst air. Combine those two and you have a mess. So yes, a rational person can have an opinion about what the priority for a subway system should be-don't you know they are asking for public comments? If making money should be the first priority, then go ahead, sock it to the poor suckers who can't aford to live in CBD. I will quite rightly assume that those who live outside the city do so for the less expensive housing costs. Did you know Beijing has a fair number of migrant workers, has anyone ever mentioned that to you?
The Beijing government generates plenty of money in a whole host of industries. But Beijing's biggest challenge is transportation and air quality, that is pretty obvious, even to a simple forum poster. The subway doesn't neccessarily need to be another one of those avenues for more revenue.
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
I notice things like that, Steven! Obviously I've looked at the map once or twice
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
Wow, this was a short pick-up and it generated this many comments. I'll accept the map may be slightly out of date, but how the hell did you notice?
Anyway, I'm glad this was informative and thought-provoking. The subway is a great way to travel and anything that improves it is a bonus for Beijing residents.
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
map now updated to relatively recent version from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beijing_subway
Re: China's "Jade Rabbit" Lands on the Moon
How about other names for US spaceships and moon rovers named after western mythological characters
He-manApollo?Apollo Lunar Roving Vehicle (LRV)
I think Jade Rabbit is a great name.
Think of it as Lepus: The Sky Rabbit, that might inspire a bit more awe
There is also Ostara, "the goddess of the moon, fertility, and spring in Anglo–Saxon myth, was often depicted with a hare’s head or ears, and with a white hare standing in attendance. This magical white hare laid brightly colored eggs which were given out to children during spring fertility festivals — an ancient tradition that survives in the form of the Easter Bunny today."
BTW Steven
The Little Mermaid's FatherPoseidon is also a mythological creature. What a silly name for a submarine, eh?Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
I can only imagine the staffing needs for such a new procees, which would need to be dealt with 12x/yr multiplied by the number of millions of riders in scope -- you have to remember not much is handled thru the mail here. No matter distance-based fare or extra charge during rush hour, both could be handled the same way current IC cards are swiped. And it would never be a good idea to charge extra during rush hour for those who take mass transit for work/school.
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
Typical Beijing....if it's not broke, fix it.
And hey Beijinger! Would it kill you to use a copy of the most receent subway map?
haha, such half a@@ed work in this town, so typical....
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
Perhaps this could be overcome by offering a monthly commuter card that can be purchased at a discount.
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
Squid, Yes, I have ridden public transport in both cities which you mentioned, and therefore am calling you out. One can't compare HK MTR with HK Tramways. The former is largely used by locals to get around the city, the latter largely by tourists. It would be the same in SF with the trolley and BART. Two completely different modes of transport for two completely different types of travelers. In that light, my comparison of BJ Subway rate formulation and other modes of transportion still seems to hold water. MTR uses distance-based fare. China Railways uses distance-based fare. Certain bus lines within the metro use distance-based fares (that's why you'll notice a meter next to the exit door). Our taxis too.
In city after city, country after country, passengers pay distance-based fare. Nanjing, Dalian, Shanghai, Osaka, Chicago...the list goes on and on -- for underground transport, light-rail, tolls, phone connections, etc. Do not assume people live in the BJ 'burbs because they can't afford it -- people live all over this city for a variety of reasons. Proximity to work, liking of a particular school, apartment design, natuarl scenary, shopping or store brand, proximity to major thoroughfares, availability of farmland, rental price, etc.
The part about subsidies can't be denied. You can check Wiki and the corresponding article (in Chinese) which supports the statement I made, in that the current fare is possible due to subsidies. I would argue a roughly 33% subsidy is considerable (i.e., if it stopped tomorrow, BJ Subway operations would shortly cease if rider-paid fare was not immediately increased). As far as the actual building of the lines, of course the people's money is used for that, too -- but they are not just up-front subsidies, my friend. Few municipal gov'ts would NOT be contributing taxpayer monies to such projects. There are one-time subsidies and ongoing subsidies, the same when gov'ts go to build roads, water mains, and the like. Also, it's not for me to say what are MTR's and BJ Subway's priorities, respectively. You are suggesting if BJ adopted the same pricing scheme used in other cities on the Mainlaind with similar cost of living and overheard figures, the operation would either be a "profit center" or no one from beyond X Ring Road would be able to come to the city, neither of which I am buying.
If the 2 operators of BJ Subway are coming to the municipal gov't and stating the current structure to continue their operating budget is unsustainable, the additional costs must shouldered by someone -- either riders or increase of subsidies. If not shouldered by the riders, which public programs would you like to take monies from to neutralize the deficit? And who are you to judge whether the current system is working just fine or not? Do you know the operating budgets and forecasted budgets and costs of our city's 2 lovely subway operators?
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
Furthermore, I would add that changing to a distance fee is only going to hurt those most who can least afford it. The people who live and need to travel further away from the city center, do so because in general they can not afford to live in the more expensive central areas of the city. If you have to travel to tongzhou, you probably live there because you can not afford to live in Guomao.
And making the subway more expensive now, when Beijing is alreay in a traffic congestion mess sounds like just complete foolishness. This is pretty obvious-and with the system working fine the way it is now, why try to break it by fixing it?
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
mtnerror,
Sorry, but I don't buy your analogies about planes and bus fares. Planes only stop at one place, its not like you can hop on and hop off anywhere along the way. Have you ever ridden street trams in cities like San Francisco or Hong Kong? You jump on and and get off anywhere you want, for one price. No one is subsidizing others riders, they simply charge a fee which allows them enough revenue to run the service-same for the subway.
I also don't agree with you that the subway is highly subsidized by tax dollars. The government pays for the intial construction of the subways-because they are aware of the benefits to the city, in terms of less pollution, less traffic, less wear on the infrastructure. But in a city like Beijing, where there is plenty of population using the trains, they can become self sustaning very quickly, and there is no need for public subsidies. Furthermore, it is certainly a much better model to keep the cost of the subway as low as possible for a city in such dire need as Beijing, rather that use a model like Hong Kongs which uses its MTR system as a profit center. Hong Kong people for the most part live a higher standard of living, and thus can more afford to use the transport, but Beijing's priority is not to make more money from the subways, its to relieve the road burden.
The bottom line is, if they go to a distance scale, it is going to cost more money for everyone, you can guarantee that. Do you really think they are going to charge less than two yuan for most distances? No chance.
Re: First Glance: Happy Beer House, Gongti
Nothing takes the fun out of pedantry like being paid for it!
Re: Foreigner on Motorbike Who Hit Lady to be Deported
OK, 4 days have passed since this story was posted, and still no update as to "two well-known Sanlitun eateries that we'll leave unnamed pending confirmation." Enough time should have passed for sources to be confirmed and readers informed.
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
@admin: What would make it hairy? It was done before in this city, then reneged but not because of complicated fare scheduling. It can once again be done here and is being done in a straightforward manner in countless other cities. If other modes of transit are also adjusted during peak hours, then OK. But if not, then it's antithetical to charge more for using mass transit at precisely the hours for which the infrastracture was built in mind for. The intervals at which the trains operate during peak hours could be shortened, but charging more during the time adults are trying to get to their jobs and students to their schools is taking a huge whack at a heck of a lot of people in society who already fave quite a few pressures. In short, they are your tax base and future tax base: do not piss them off by having a rush hour fare. Distance-based fare is hard to argue against.
On another note, it would be great if there could be a once-and-for-all decision by the two subway operators to agree to signage standards. One operator lists the next station with the direction arrow of the train, the other the terminus. It's a complicated mess for those who encounter a particular line for the first few times, or visitors in general. Also, signage and arrows could be more widespread and improved overall at ton of stations, escalators fixed (to have anything at Guomao in the heart of the CBD be out for so long is incomprehensible) and improved walkway and tunnel flow.
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
though i can see it being hairy from a technological point of view, why not charge more from 7am-9am and 5pm-7pm, like make it 4 kuai and less on the off hours?
Actually I find the subway bearable most of the other times of the day, and a moderate hike might be enough to alter behavior
Re: First Glance: Happy Beer House, Gongti
hey we're looking for editors -- count, how about applying... you've got the eye and you're here alot anyhow
Re: Fare Hikes May Lie Ahead for Subway Riders
@squid:
What I have proposed is in line with other modes of transportation and is in line with "pay for what you use". If I want to take the tollway, I pay based on type of vehicle and distance -- it is not a flat fee. Same goes for taxis and some bus lines, train tickets and generally, planes. The train ticket price is not the same for BJ-Nanjing as BJ-Shanghai, nor should it be. Subways have to go to a certain terminus, in which there is an apparatus for which the cars can be used to go the opposite direction, so no matter there are riders going to the terminus or not, it's a required destination for the subway cars. If I'm only using the infrascture for 2 stops, why should someone using it for 13 stops get to pay the same?
Not all bus lines charge the same fare nor a flat fee (as noted in my original comments) so when you state "buses charge one fare," that's not accurate. Short distance subway rides will likely drop in price instead of today's flate fare, so stating a change in how fares are calculated resulting in it being more expensive for the rider is likely inaccurate.
To answer your question of who benefits, we all do. Right now subway operations are heavily subsidized. Indeed, part of our taxes go towards all forms of public transit, even if you don't use it. This will and should continue, but not all fare increases should be paid for by subsidies -- at some point in time, I need to get the user of the infrastructure to pitch in more, too. If more of your taxes are devoted to subways and public transit at large, it means less is available for other things (education, public health, etc.).
In general, I'm in favor of the majority of the cost being shouldered by the receipient of the good or service. I would not rest the counter-argument on a possibly confusing ticketing process, as mostly locals use the subway and it will only take a small time for them to get used to the new pricing schemes (and most are using IC cards so there won't be any added confusion, anyways...after scanning the card at the destinations turnstyle, the meter would deduct the corresponding amount). For visitors and tourists, they will see the same ticketing scheme as countless other cities around the world use -- if our visitors in SH and Chicago and Paris can figure it out, so can those who visit BJ. Pick the destination, tap the screen to confirm, and the fare will be determined by the machine without added hassle to the traveler. If you happen to change your schedule/mind and need to go to a subway station further away, then pay the difference upon arrival of your new final destination. The turnstyles are already manned so no new costs associated there. Sure, lines may result in this but what % of those who exit at that particular moment are going to need to need fare adjustment?
Re: First Glance: Happy Beer House, Gongti
"Newly opened in September"
Or just "Opened in September".