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2008 May 23 China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Update: Comments on this post have now been closed - we encourage readers who'd like to continue to discuss visa queries to head to either this section of the Beijinger forum or to Nadine's page devoted to visa issues - which can be found here - http://fxzl.blogspot.com

"We have made some arrangements according to usual international practice. That is, in the approval process we are more strict and more serious with the procedure"

China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang
Beijing saw a marked drop in the number of overseas tourists in April, which fell by 5.3 percent year-on-year, according to official statistics revealed on Tuesday. Yu Xiuqin, the bureau's spokeswoman attributed the decrease partly to Beijing's tightened business visa approvals on foreign visitors for international exhibitions and conferences, because of safety concerns for the coming Olympic Games.

China Daily: Beijing sees marked drop in overseas tourists in April

An enormous amount of confusion currently exists throughout Beijing's expat community in regard to the Chinese government's apparent, but not officially announced, recent tightening of visa policies. The lack of an adequate response from government departments and spokespeople to the increasing demand for clarification of the gap between the existing regulations and commonly observed practices, has only added to the frustration felt by both business people and those hoping to travel to China during the Olympic period. As applications are being handled on a case-by-case basis, it’s almost impossible to make absolute and irrefutable statements about what’s going on, still, patterns have begun to emerge and below I outline what is known and what can be suspected to be the case in regard to the new visa situation.

What we know for sure:

Since mid-April, additional documents need to be provided to obtain L and F visas:

L (tourist) visa: Outbound and return flight booking and stamped (chopped) hotel reservation for the complete duration of stay. If staying at a relative's house, proof of kinship (marriage / birth certificate) and copies of his/her passport, visa, residence permit and police registration need to be provided.

F (business) visa: Flight booking, stamped (chopped) hotel reservation and original invitation letter from a relevant department of the Chinese government, company or institution, under the authorization of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of China.

L and F visas are issued for a standard duration of 30 days, single entry, unless flight bookings (e.g. to Hong Kong) are provided to prove double entry is needed. To obtain a visa for a longer duration, a full travel itinerary needs to be provided. The visa application form has been changed to a much more detailed version.

Extensions of F visa in China are only possible until June 30th, 2008. Interns and short-term project workers are required to apply for a Z visa if an uninterrupted stay in China is required.

The possibility of visa applications in Hong Kong has been severely reduced. Although some 30 days L and F and some Z visas still seem to be issued, the Visa office in Hong Kong requests all foreign passport holders that do not have a Hong Kong residence permit to apply for visas in their respective home country. Expect longer queues and processing times of up to five days. Visa applications in other Asian countries seem to be just as difficult. A list of 33 countries (a list can be found here) whose nationals need to apply for visa in their respective home country has been published; however, restrictions also seem to apply to other nationals.

Z visa extensions, new Z visas and spouse visas have not been affected by the new policies. However, dependent visa that were previously also issued to non-married couples with children now require the provision of a marriage certificate.

Student (X) visas for the summer are only issued by a very limited number of universities and language schools.

The authorities are increasingly tracking down foreigners without valid visas and Registrations of Temporary Residence. Foreigners overstaying their visas are charged any where between RMB 500 to RMB 5,000/day. According to multiple reports, foreigners without a valid visa must expect to be awarded the red “has to leave China within ten days” stamp in their passport, which will make it nearly impossible to apply for a new visa.

Other rumors out there

It seems that staying at private accommodation is no longer an option for tourists from at least some countries as either a hotel booking or a proof of kinship need to be provided. Hotels have received stricter deadlines about the ID registration of their guests by the PSB and are more and more expected to demand full payment upfront to prevent fake bookings.

Concerning L and F visa, it seems extremely difficult to get a visa for any duration longer than 30 days. If 60 or 90 days visas are issued, most of them only allow a maximum duration of stay of 30 days in China.

Extensions of L visa have been reported to be subject to the provision of Olympic tickets a copy of your debit card or a bank account statement showing certain funds (reports range between USD 100 and 150/day of stay in China). It still remains unclear if tickets acquired through the China resident ticket round can be used.

There are still reports about successful applicants of 6 month and 1 year multiple entry F visas, however, none of them could be verified or tracked down to the reasons.

While researching this post, we attempted to get clarification from both the Exit and Entry Management Section of the Beijing Municipal Public Security Bureau and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs about the current state of visa policies. The lady on duty at the Exit and Entry Management Section of the Beijing PSB informed us that all questions related to the formalities of getting a visa during the Olympic period should be referred to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. When we inquired about the likelihood of being able to extend visas from within China during the Olympics, we were informed that there was no definite policy and she could not provide any firm advice. We called the number for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs supplied by the PSB and were forwarded on twice before being given the number 6596 3788. None of our repeated calls to this number were answered.

Useful Links
The Beijinger Forum: Visa Issues
The China Visa Blog www.thechinavisa.blogspot.com
Shanghai Expat: Guide to Getting your Z-Visa / Work and Residence Permit
Danwei: China visa confusion (May 6)
Shanghaiist: China visa updates (May 6)
Chinatravel.net: New Chinese Visa Rules: Please Read (Apr 30)
All Roads Lead to China: China F Visa Update
One-Eyed Panda’s Journal: China Visa Update
The Beijinger: Visa Woes (Jul 25)

A Timeline of Reporting on Visa Issues
China Daily: Beijing sees marked drop in overseas tourists in April (May 20)
China Daily: China says visa policy in line with Olympics practice (May 6)
AFP: Australia warns China over visa restrictions (May 6)
CNN: Visa rules tightened for tourists ahead of Beijing Olympics (May 6)
New York Times: Bracing for Games, China Sets Rules That Complicate Life for Foreigners (Apr 24)
MSNBC: China steps up security ahead of Olympics (Apr 24)
Shanghaiist: More updates on the Chinese visa situation (Apr 18)
China's Foreign Ministry Website in Hong Kong: Notice of Changed Rules – “If you don't reside or work in Hong Kong permanently, you are required to apply Chinese visa from the Embassy or Consulate General of Peoples' Republic of China in your resident country.” (Apr 13)
Countdown to Beijing: New Terror Plot, Visa Clampdown (Apr 10)
www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/beijing/archive/2008/04/10/burnt-out-china-s...
Countdown to Beijing: China's Visa Squeeze(Feb 20) www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/beijing/archive/2008/02/20/china-s-visa-sque...
Newsweek: Beijing’s Visa Crackdown (Feb 18)
Spot On: Mean Streets (Oct 9, 2007)
Wall Street Journal: China's Visa Crackdown Reflects Olympics Anxiety (Sep 20, 2007)
Embassy of the People’s Republic of China in New Zealand: Beijing eases visa requirements (Feb 3, 2005)

Official Sites
Beijing Municipal Public Security Bureau (Chinese)
Beijing Municipal Public Security Bureau: Foreigners, Visa Document Management
Beijing Official Website: Visa Information (latest update Oct, 2005)
Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People’s Republic of China: Foreign Ministry's Regular Press Conferences at which foreign journalists often ask questions about China’s visa policies
Beijing 2008: Welcome to Beijing – Entry
Beijing 2008: Launching Your Olympics Journey
Beijing 2008: Customs entry-exit inspection to be simplified for the Games

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

thecakedoctor

So what are the 33 countries?

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

joe schome

shalympics

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Liuzhou Laowai

So, China enforces its regulations and all the the foreigners who have been working illegally on tourist, student and business visitor visas start whining.

Have they any idea how difficult it is for Chinese people to get visas for their countries? Or do they just not care?

Well done China. I'm sick of idiotic westerners complaining about illegal immigrants in their country while working and living here illegally.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Pan Suiyuan

So. Let's just think again about it.

This is just another brick in the Great Wall that separates more and more China and the rest of the world.

Europe, the US and Japan have already closed their doors for people from the asian and african countries; now that's the answer.

@Liuzhou Laowai: That's right.

But there's also a big difference between China and the EU: If a chinese marries something from the EU, then he / she can easily obtain a residence permit for Europe and live and work there indefitinely. But vice versa it's not possible.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Amawasee

I living in Beijing with my husband for nearly 3 months, his company tried to get spouse visa for me but they said no because of I'm Thai. What's wrong with Thai. I thought that China and Thailand has very good relationship. But itsn't happen only Thai. Now the company sent to the agent to do for me. They said please let Thai Embassy stamp to your wedding certificate then we will give your 6 months visa. I got the stamp but still confuse that why you can't see my surname on the passport that it is the same with my husband. If you so scared the problems about the traffic or where the people live why you want the olympic game. Why noone in the committee who make the rule say something and think hard. Anyway I got the spouse visa but why you make it so hard to do the spouse visa. You know that it seem like you try to break the family (I live 3 coutries but not much problem like here). The Chinese so good but the system of the government not very nice. You know or not Chinese in my country everywhere and they can live there noproblem. Look what you treat Thai in China.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Turtlewind

@Pan Suiyuan: exactly. A spouse visa in my country (UK) lasts for 5 years and comes with full working rights, and after that 5 years you can apply for another with unlimited duration. Assuming this post is correct, a spouse visa in China now lasts for 30 days, and the only thing you can do with it is sit on your backside, or maybe go out sightseeing (even if it still lasts for a year, you still can't work or do business on one). Of course it's China's right to toughen up visa restrictions, but it's hypocritical to justify it by pointing at Western countries when they don't offer equivalent provisions for spouses. And I won't even get started about the relative chances of obtaining Chinese vs British citizenship.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Probiscus

Anybody know if policies in Chengdu for work visas have been affected by the earthquake?

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Pan Suiyuan

@Turtlewind

Yes. Here in bad old Germany it's the same. You can LIVE and WORK with it - not in China. But our leaders have also already tied up visa requirements - you can only get this permanent visa if you prove basic german knowledge. So let's imagine someone from the countryside, where the next german consulate is some hundred or even thousand kilometers away, also the next language school.

But if you are from a different EU-Country living in Germany and trying to get your spouse a visa, there're no language requirements...

>__

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

B.K.

Soon the Chinese will realize that all the DJs and writers and photographers and artists that made Shanghai an official quote-unquote "world city" had to go. Bet that will be a good "huho" moment for them.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Turtlewind

Someone commenting on this story on China Law Blog said that they were able to get a 1 year Spouse-L with no problems - I'm cross-posting it here for the benefit of anyone who was wondering about this:

"For those married to a Chinese national and not on a Z-visa but the multi-entry one year L (used for family reunification purposes)expect no problems. Mine was extended without any problems for another year. I am not working in China and permitted to stay as long as I want to stay with my family. Marriage certificate and proof of stay (home-ownership or lease) is all that was needed."

Posted by JM, source: http://www.chinalawblog.com/2008/05/china_visas_just_the_facts_maa.html#...

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

AK

So is it official that you can still attempt to get an F- Visa extension in Hong Kong if you have a UK paasport. I have an art exhibition running whilst my current 30 days expire. I need an extension to come back and take down the show. My flight is booked to fly home on 15th August to UK from Shanghai. Is it at all likely that I will get a double entry F visa?
Help is much appreciated

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

tom

Relax, these tightened rules are only expected to last until after the Olympics

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

tom

You really think the government cares about foreign DJs and artists?

"Soon the Chinese will realize that all the DJs and writers and photographers and artists that made Shanghai an official quote-unquote "world city" had to go. Bet that will be a good "huho" moment for them."

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Lisa in Toronto

I know a number of people who spend time in China on an F visa without a job in China.
Their employers and bank accounts are outside China.
They don't want to be permanent residents of China.
I don't see how any such person can get a letter from a Chinese ministry, as their employer has no representative office in China. That's why they are visiting on an F visa in the first place.

The months leading up to the Olympics seems like an odd time to make tourists provide letters from their employers stating they are on approved leave for their dates in China.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Stephan Larose

To the person who is giving all Chinese a bad name with his ignorant rants:

"Well done China. I'm sick of idiotic westerners complaining about illegal immigrants in their country while working and living here illegally."

I don't know where you come up with the idea that most westerners are living here illegally. Perhaps you are complaining about the immense value we bring to your country. Please bear in mind that vast majority of the money that has led to the fantastic growth China has experienced since the 1970's has come from evil Western nations.

I agree that we have Visa rules that are too tight in the West, however, when a Westerner chooses to come work in China, we are not leeching your resources, we are contributing greatly to your development and your economy.

As for the the DJ's and artists, your country's cultural scene has benefited a lot from the cultural interchanges, I don't understand why it is necessary to vilify people who have made your country a better place to live.

In a civil exchange of ideas, if the point is to maximize benefit for all participating, it is best to refrain from highly emotional, bigotted, or aggressive conjecture.

Good luck in the Olympics China!

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

seadoo

@ Liuzhou Laowai (btw: nice name)
I know in fact that it is no problem for a Chinese to get a visa for studying in Germany. You only have to extend your visa once a year in any town in Germany. But I have to leave China, flying back home to get a new visa. Do you really think that's fair?
I think you have no idea, what you are talking about, you are just a angry racist.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

zbert

Unfortunately, the widely-mentioned comment that "Z visas are unaffected" is inaccurate. I've been teaching English legally for several years with just a university degree. Getting a new residence permit (for work) at the local visa office, it told my new company that they now require a "skills certificate" and -- get this -- they want it certified by my country's education ministry. Since that's the United States, and the Department of Education doesn't do anything like that, my new employer is trying to figure out what to do next.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

mer

I'm going to marry my chinese gf next month. I'm wondering if, in the actual situation, I would be granted a L long permanence visa. Now I'm staying on an F visa, and I'm afraid I should leave the country to handle the new one, but I would avoid to make this trip in vain. If anyone knows anything about, please let me know.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

yu888

Stephan Larose: Sad fact is that a large number of expats/foreigners DO work on F and L visas in China and due to the lack of enforcement until recently, it had been quasi-acceptable.

Many companies, language schools, events companies, ad agencies, and others, that hire foreigners sometimes on short term basis and sometimes longer, often use F visa's instead of actually providing them with a work permit. And many more individuals, just get grey-market F visas to stay longer via agencies that usually provide legitimate visa services.
The F visa, in addition to being the official "business visa", has long been the "safety net" for those that do not quite qualify for for a Work permit, ie companies without rep offices but that have a need for someone here in China, say checking regular shipments and/or making decisions at contracted factories.

Many of these "new" policies really are more of an enforcement of many rules that existed but just were not enforced before.

But ultimately, complaints are coming from both legit and not-so-legit folks who now have to deal with visa issues that they had taken fro granted for some time now.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Nadine Ulrich

@all: Thanks for your comments. Any input and experiences are much appreciated in these troubled times.

@Turtlewind: I can confirm that spousal L visa are still being issued, under the condition that the applicant has an L visa at the time of the application.

@mer: You can get a spousal L visa, but you will need to leave the country, get a tourist visa and then aplpy for the spousal visa. Search the tbj visa section for "goolden_wedding"'s story, he just had to undergo the same procedure.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Sue

to Stephan Larose and seadoo, if the Liuzhou Laowai is the Liuzhou Laowai that I read his blog regularly, then he is an expat himself. In that case, part of your comment might be a bit off target I'm afraid.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Shaan

For some reason the comments won't let me post it here, but a friend received a letter from his visa agent (who was trying to help him get his z visa for the small Chinese company he currently works for) stating that it was no longer possible to get him a Z visa. The letter specifically said that unless you worked for a top 500 (Fortune 500, I'm assuming) company, Z visas are no longer available. So getting one might still be possible, but it sounds like it's gotten a lot harder.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Nadine Ulrich

Hi Shaan,

thanks for posting this information. It seems indeed that although Z visa regulations have not been affected, some rules about applying for a working permit are now more severely enacted than before (although they always existed).

For example, in 2007 and before, some companies managed to apply for working permits although the employee did not have enough relevant work experience or a suitable university diploma. Many of these applications are now rejected.

The same could be the reason in your friend's case: there are mimimum requirements to company size, paid-up capital and scope of business if you would like to hire a foreigner.

Talking about the top 500, it could actually be that they meant a minimum capitalization of 5 million RMB.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Liuzhou Laowai

"I think you have no idea, what you are talking about, you are just a angry racist."

Really?

As Sue points out, I am an expat. I have lived in China for the past 13 years (all of them legally!)

I'm not sure what you think I am angry about. Your charge of racism is absurd.

Stephan Larose - Ha ha! You couldn't have got it more wrong.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

richard cannon

I'm not whining but my Chinese wife and stepson both have 2 year visas to go to the UK. I have a house in China and a family and the best I can get is a double entry 30 day maximum stay visa. How does that equate
now Liuzhou Laowai

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

richard cannon

Pan Suiyuan. Your reference to 'something' as a person is quite insulting. I hope it is down to your inadequate knowledge of English

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Liuzhou Laowai

Richard,

If your wife is Chinese and retains her Chinese nationality, ID card and hukou, then you can stay indefinitely. Your L visa for visiting "family" can be renewed as has been pointed out already. But you can't work legally.

I never said things "equate".

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Haiziyi

I was just told by the PSB that I will have to leave the country to get a spouse visa as I am currently on an F visa... don't know if this is a change from before. I think the problem with China's visa policy is not that they want to enforce it but rather that they don't make it clear and they keep changing the rules!

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Haiziyi

About marrying a Chinese: be careful - it takes a month before you can get your certificate... not counting the time it will take you to get proof you are single from your embassy and do the health check etc.

Re: China Visa – Facts and Fiction

Nadine Ulrich

Haiziyi,

this is true, thanks for pointing it out - you cannot switch directly from F to spousal L. You need to go to HK (or elsewhere), get a new tourist visa (with whatever duration) and then transform it into the spousal L visa with your marriage certificate.

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