Is St. Patrick's Day a Thing in Ireland? A Word with Irishman and Beijing Bar Vet Glenn Phelan

In Auschwitz, 8,000 Jewish people were gas chambered every day. My high school has about 1500 students, and all of us together could occupy half of a soccer field. So 8,000 people can occupy about 2-3 soccer fields. 

My college has a student population of 6,000. Auschitz exterminated more Jewish people than the whole student population of a mid-sized American university every single day.

Max, may god forgive you, but I do think you have a serious karma issue now. It has probably gone bankrupt. 

PatrickLi wrote:

First of all I don't even think there's an established stereotype of Germans enjoying mass killing. It's probably something that's made up by yourself.

Secondly, the German one is of different nature from other stereotypes because it is genocide. Genocide, as far as I'm concerned, is still different from heavy drinking, cheating at exams and being lazy. I think my explanation is clear enough, so please don't keep arguing with me that you don't think the German one is different from the Irish one.

Finally, I'm not sure where you come from but I think you are Chinese, so I don't blame you if you don't know much about the Holocaust because it's not taught in China, but now it's your time to learn.

Oh I see... only you are allowed define what is and is not offensive?

Thanks for letting me know about this tidbit of your personality!

You are still agreeing with my point. Certain blanket statements about people are offensive. Irish being alcoholics. Germans hating jews. French being cowards. Russians being violent. Japanese being perverts.

And not everyone will agree with each other. But we all know these sorts of statements are offensive and will offend some people. So we should not use them.

But I can see I'm wasting my time. Spend a few minutes in the forum here and you'll see the owners/administrators don't care about racism, sexism, hate speech, etc. It's been like that for years so at this stage we must assume they condone it.

PatrickLi wrote:

Max Renn wrote:

Otto: Do German's usually kill jews?

Max, I think you have crossed the line here. You need to stop using this case as an example, which is not comparable to any stereotype that has been discussed, be it French people being lazy, Chinese people being dishonest or Irish people being boozy.

Ah, finally, someone who agrees offensive stereotypes are offensive!

Without realising it, you just agreed with me.

Some people find certain stereotypes offensive.

You find the German one offensive.

I find the Irish one offensive.

Not everyone finds the German one offensive (you do, I don't), and not everyone finds the Irish one offensive (I do, you don't).

The solution is to not ask stupid stereotype questions during interviews, as you risk offending people. I would have thought that is something you learn when studying journalism, unless you're trying to invoke an emotional reaction from people.

Otto: Do German's usually kill jews?

While we are on the subject of drinking-related holidays, I would like to propose that the bars of Beijing begin celebrating important dates on the Belarusian calendar with drinking parties, given they're obviously the heaviest drinkers so they probably really know how to party.

A natural would be three consecutive nights of drinking from Belarusian Independence Day July 3 where Minsk Mohitos and Red Army an be served, and continuing nightly until Belarus-born* artist Marc Chagall's birthday on July 6 with a Chagall Chug-athon.

PS No offense intended to our Belarusian readers.

*OK so technically Belarus didn't exist at the time he was born, but same difference.

Arvi89 wrote:

Now you don't make any sense. Anyway, I'll maybe enjoy myself Thrusday night in an Irish pub

OK. I'll try to explain with an example.

France has some negative stereotypes. A common one (in the US at least) is that they are cowardly. This comes from (I think) France surrendering quickly in WW2.

So imagine there was an article in The Beijinger about France and wars or whatever, and the interviewer asks:

"Are French people usually cowardly?"

Would you think that is a good question, on topic and relevant, or would you think it's a bit ridiculous and possibly offensive?

admin wrote:

Why is heavy drinking offensive when said about Irish people, but not offensive when said about French or Chinese people?

Because there is an offensive stereotype about the Irish drinking too much.

No one says the French or Chinese drink too much.

There are offensive stereotypes about the French being cowardly and the Chinese cheating people. Imagine an article about WW2, and the interviewer asking a French person "Are French people usually cowardly?". Or an article about sleaze and the interviewer asking a French man "Are French men usually sleazy?". Offensive.

I think I now understand why the forums here are so toxic, because you, the adminstrator, have no understanding or what is or is not offensive.

Or perhaps you're just trolling.

Regardless, I won't respond to your ignorance furthermore.

Max Renn wrote:

None of your examples are offensive stereotypes.

I think this is the issue here. You don't understand the problem.

Heavy drinking Irish person is an offensive stereotype.

Change your Chinese examples to be about them cheating people. Change your French example to be about being cowardly or sleazy. Then you're getting closer to why this is offensive.

So it's ok to say French are heavy wine drinker but not ok to say that Irish are heavy beer drinker?

(And yes, we drink a lot of red wine  )

edit: oops missed page 2

spassky wrote:

"Is the Irish Car Bomb something that genuinely comes from Ireland? And do bars in Ireland provide special green drinks for the holiday?"

good on him for handling this so well. this could have taken another turn, but I was hoping he would at least describe it's origin and why it's disrespectful to even utter those words around an Irish citizen.

With the Irish Car Bomb question and the heavy drinking Irish question, it seems the interviewer was either trying to push buttons or has the tact of a slug.

Max Renn wrote:

None of your examples are offensive stereotypes.

I think this is the issue here. You don't understand the problem.

Heavy drinking Irish person is an offensive stereotype.

Change your Chinese examples to be about them cheating people. Change your French example to be about being cowardly or sleazy. Then you're getting closer to why this is offensive.

Again, I've never heard of the Chinese Cheating Festival or the French Day of Sleaziness. St. Paddy's is celebrated in most places by going out drinking, that's kind of a reality.

Recall as well that this was written by the person who works for us to write about beer, drinking and bars. So while there is a deeper religious and cultural significance for St Patrick's Day for many people, this assignment was about where to celebrate St Paddy's in Beijing, from an Irish bar owner, and appearing on a blog which is heavily focused on dining, drinking and partying.

Now imagine the story above without the follow-up question (the answer to which dispels the very stereotype of heavy drinking Irish). We could've left it at consuming 100s of kegs of beer at various parties, but the way it is allows for the interview subject to address and dispel a common stereotype.

---

Here's a Cinco de Mayo question that is similar: Do Mexicans drink a lot of shots of tequila? My experience at parties in Mexican-themed restaurants and bars would lead me to think so. However, my Mexican in-laws tell me they're not big tequila drinkers, and when they have it, they sip it and don't down it with salt and lime in shots. Also they certainly don't make guacamole with 10 ingredients (it's mostly just avocado and a splash of lime where they are). These could be regional or personal preferences, but I was glad to hear it so that it dispelled a stereotype I held about Mexicans, primarily because most of my knowledge of Mexican culture previously was created by limited experiences in Mexican restaurants and bars.

None of your examples are offensive stereotypes.

I think this is the issue here. You don't understand the problem.

Heavy drinking Irish person is an offensive stereotype.

Change your Chinese examples to be about them cheating people. Change your French example to be about being cowardly or sleazy. Then you're getting closer to why this is offensive.

Do black people usually attack people?

Do German's usually kill jews?

Do Chinese people usually cheat everyone?

...

Seriously, it's an incredibly ignorant question.

I'm surprised you're defending her.